By: Cody
I need help with a good looking force i know the criss-cross force and
the one where you have the spectator pic a # and count down that many
cards then count them slower for them. Do any of you know a better
ones??
By: jason england
There's this little thing floating around in the literature called a
"classic" force. You might give it a try.
By: Adam V
That's all good and done but it is also an extremely difficult force
to use. Even after mastering it you cannot guarantee it's success. The
classic should never be used on a trick that demands a card force, if
you must however, you should always have a back-up trick planned just
in case. I would suggest learning the riffle force. It's incredibly
easy to do, and I have never had anyone suspect anything.
By: Peter Groning
Well, I must say that this isn't really true. You can learn to get the
force to work every time. It is not so much about tecnique, as about
confidence.
For example, when doing the force, act comfidently and as if it doesn't matter which card will be picked. The spectator will feel this and go along. (There will always be some people who are trying to be "smart" and destroy your work.)
There are alot of small things to concider, that only will be learned by trying, and trying again.
By the way, I think that Jason Englands tip about trying to have a card forced every time a card is picked is excellent! This allows practicing under fire.
By: Frank Yuen
Learning Gary Ouellet's Touch Force (I think that's what it's called)
will let you try the Classic Force every time and not worry about
switching tricks if you miss. Simply start by asking them to touch a
card. If they touch the force card then you can, if you wish, let them
remove it. If they miss it then switch to the Touch Force mechanics
and you can go on with your effect. The Touch Force can be learned in
Ouellet's "Close-Up Illusions", in one of his lecture notes, in one of
his articles in Genii, and I think on one of his tapes. Combine the
two and your Classic Force will get better simply because you aren't
worrying about missing it.
By: Randy Campbell
You're correct, Frank, it is on his Close-up Illusions tape, where he
also include the Spillman Subtley to the Touch Pass. This is a great
method of forcing, and can be used either spreading the cards or
riffling. I also recommend picking up Steve Spillman's fine little
book(let) "My Hands Can Be Yours" from 1973. It's not well-known (at
least these days) and should be inexpensive (less than $10) and has
some nice thinking in it.
By: Richard Parker
Wow, I like this idea. You wouldn't happen to know which Genii it's
in, would you? I don't have many, but I have a friend who has a fair
number of back issues.
By: Kurt Ruckman
Gary Ouellet's Touch Force is in the May 1988 Genii (Special Gary
Ouellet Issue, he's on the cover).
By: John H. Zander
The classic force is a great and natural force for sure. But it is not
for the beginner and a beginner should not have to lock himself in his
room for three weeks to learn how to do a sleight just to accomplish a
card trick. Check out Michael Ammars Easy to Master videos or the Card
College books, you will find what you need to know. Also check here
for some quick answers:
http://web.superb.net/cardtric/sleights/index.htm
By: jason england
The ability to learn a classic force doesn't have alot to do with how
much skill one ALREADY has. If you can spread a deck between your
hands you can begin to practice the sleight.
Granted a back-up plan is recommended in case it fails, but just when do you propose that a fledgling card handler begin to practice it?
No amount of work in other areas of card magic will prepare you for the day you must attempt a classic force under fire. (It is decidedly unlike any other move in magic...one of the reasons it is so "hard".)
The time to begin the learning process is now.
By: Steve V
I have to agree with Jason. The Classic can and should be practiced
even when not forcing a card.
By: Elimis
I know what the classic force is, but I can't quite do it yet. I know
*what* I need to do (I think :-) but is there any good book or video
in particular that teaches it? A book with a lot of other things too,
I don't want to spend money on something that will only give me very
basic stuff...
I know that in the encyclopedia of card sleights by Daryl, he teaches it. However, this is a sleight that I believe I should start practicing now. Practicing, not perfecting.
By: jason england
NO book or video teaches it...there are many that describe it
though. It is up to you to LEARN it. And you will learn best by
doing. Use it EVERYTIME you don't need it.
Eventually you will build up confidence in the move until you feel its time to turn it loose on people for real.
By: Elimis
I already try it once in a while, but from now on I will try it every
time. If it works, good. If not, I'll just do another trick.
One problem is that I'm not sure I'm doing the actual force right. It's possible that I actually think it's right, but It is totally different.
By: TJ
A good method, I beleive it was Steve V who said it, and now I do it,
is: Even if a free choice is necasary, try to classic force a card
anyways, you still wont know what it is, but its good practice for the
force. Thats also good practice! Hope it helps...
By: Jack
I use the A.D. Force from J.K. Hartman's 'Card Craft' most of the
time. You definitely need to learn some other forces.
By: Richard Parker
I'm not going to tell you not to work on the Classic Force, but I
don't do it because it isn't surefire. I like surefire forces.
Here's another great force from Card Craft (subsection (b), page 77); it's now my favorite force and is a variation of the riffle force. No less a magician than Paul Cummins showed it to me, so if that isn't a good recommendation, I don't know what is. You get a break above the force card. I do this by having the force card on top of the deck, and then I swing cut the top half of the deck into my left hand and get the break when I put the other half of the deck on top. Now riffle down the outer left corner of the deck with your thumb. When the spectator says, "Stop," simultaneously relax the pressure with your left thumb and toss the cards above the break sideways into your right hand. Thumb off the top card of the left-hand packet, or extend the packet to the spectator and have him take the top card, and you're done.
It's important that the toss is a lateral (i.e., sideways) toss. There is no arc to it. It's more of an inertia kind of thing that you do pretty quickly.
Believe me, done properly (and it isn't difficult), this force is casual and looks natural. I've fooled magicians with it. It also requires no table, so it works pretty well in just about any performing situation. Of course, you can also do an honest riffle shuffle before you do your swing cut and get your break, so long as you make sure the top card stays on top after your shuffle.
As for good bottom-card forces, the Hindu force works well, and the Charlier Cut force with Daryl's riffle finesse is also excellent (see Live in London, vol. 2). I fooled some magicians with that one, too.
By: Sean-Dylan
i agree with Jason on the classic force (I use it most of the
time). The other force that I use with a lot of success is the dribble
force.
By: Olde Rabbit
The Force part of the trick is never the most important part. What is
important is that your presentation is such that the force is hardly
even noticed, or the revelation is blown way out of proportion
relative to the force.
It is important to learn a variety of forces, so you always have a different one when needed, and so you get practice doing them. The Cross Cut Force is excellent. Bob Brown used it for years with a card routine he did, and never got caught.
With most forces, you want to make out as tho the force is the least important aspect to the trick. Almost as if "this is so insignificant I could do it myself, but to involve you a bit, I'll let you do it for me. But don't spend a lot of time here, we have more important work to do".
Many pros will learn all kinds of really fascinating and clever forces, and often use them on other magi, but used really basic forces such as the Cross Cut or Classic in performance, just to keep it simple so they can spend their time and energies on their presentations. The same is true for a lot of sleights.
But so much of the force is the psychology involved. Learn as many as you can so you better understand what you're doing, how you are manipulating your audience, etc. But as most magis do, in performance, find a few you are really comfortable doing, and stick with them. Keep it simple.
Devote your performance time and energies to your presentation and interaction with your audiences.
By: Scott K.
The "Cut Deeper" force is cool...
It is explained on "Amazing Secrets of Card Magic" by Michael Ammar.
By: FalgahBoy
Cody:
There are lots and lots of different ways to force cards. Many of them have different appearances, so a "good" force is the one that blends into the handling for a specific trick in the most natural way.
Some useful forces you can learn are:
1. The Hofzinser Spread force
2. The Backslip or K.M. Move to force a card
3. The Horace Goldin Force
4. Numerous forces using second- and bottom-deals (or even the Glide)
5. The 10 to 20 force
6. The 14-15 stack
7. The riffle force
8. The "regular" cut force (not the cross-cut)
9. Learn to use Equivoque with subtlety
10. The Hindu Shuffle Force
11. Having the spectator cut to a crimp
12. In certain cases, you could even use a forcing deck
13. Or, a setup deck with, forcing banks
Actually, there are a great many more than I've even listed here. I use all of the above, except for numbers 10 and 12. The reason is that I don't think the Hindu Shuffle force is, as Ortiz might say, "the most deceptive move in card magic," and I have no requirement for a forcing deck in any trick I currectly perform.
Try to remember not to get a "pet force," and abuse it by using it all the time. I think it is best to mix it up a little, and use different techniques in different tricks. Also, try to think about whether or not you really need to force a card at all. In many tricks, when it would at first seem necessary to force the selection, it may not be. For example, if your aim is to "find the card," you can do this in a number of ways that don't require a force at all; things like key cards, and various card controls can be used, as well as glimpsing techniques.
By: EnricoSuave
I'll admit it, I only have one good card force (special decks aside)
and a back-up mediocre shuffle.. but the upside is the one force I've
been using has never been caught. I'm an average card-handler and
would like to learn one or two more forces really well for those
occaisons I find myself doing more than one card trick in one
sitting. Generally I try to do no more than two and then move into
something else.
I'd like to ask what are your favorite, sure-fire forces that you find most reliable. My step-dad (who I practice my card tricks on) is very hip to card-handling so if I can slip past him I feel ready for the average layman. If you know of any online video or text resources to your favorite force that would be greatly appreciated.
By: Marvin L.
Which card force are you using now? If we know that it will preclude
duplication in our responses.
By: EnricoSuave
The one I've been using (which works well for me) is where the deck is
riffed forward until spectator says, "Stop.". Card is then forced from
the top of the supposed 'random' stop in the deck. It's silent, no
blurry moves to arouse suspicion.. but I'd rather not use the same
force twice for the same people, same day.
The other force I've known since I was old enough to shuffle a deck (about 10 years old) is exactly like the standard shuffle with the top card known and controlled. This is then casually followed with a 'slicing' of the cards forward (faces toward the spectator) and then dole out the top card in any fashion I desire.
There is one other force I use, but always as a finish. This is where eight cards are dealt face-down, in two groups of stacked pairs. The spectator points at and eliminates cards (his supposed random choice) until only one card remains.. his, face down. I use this after pulling the old, "Darn, couldn't find your card.. I'll have to practice this more. But maybe you could find it..".
By: bunkyhenry
I am not an expert with cards but The Cut Force (I got it from Mark
Wilsons tape)seems so stupid yet I have never ever been questioned
with it..unbelievable. I also use the backslip force and a palm force.
By: FalgahBoy
The thing is, though, that if your stepfather is knowledgeable about
those methods, he probably won't be fooled by them, even if you do
them really well, and even if they would fool a spectator.
For example, a VERY deceptive force, when done well, is the Hofzinser spread force. It works beautifully. Magicians, though, are unlikely to be fooled by it, simply because they are aquainted with the mechanics and specific handling. I would know when someone is using that technique, NOT because it isn't deceptive, but simply because I recognize the technique. Regular people do not.
There are lots of good forces in magic. What do you want it to look like? Do you want to spread the cards in the hands for someone to take one? Do you want them to cut the deck, and take the card cut to? Do you want a number named, and then deal to that number? Do you want them to stop a thumb-riffle? There are forces that look like all of the above, and more.
So, what do you want it to look like?
By: Chris Wasshuber
a good source for ideas and lots of methods for forces is Annemann's
'202 Methods of Forcing'. You wouldn't find the slickest knuckle
busting forces in there. But it gives you a wide selection of
mathematically based as well as move based forces. I couldn't think of
any better source to see if there is something out there which might
suit your needs.
Do I still need to say that I am offering this great little booklet in electronic form? Check out my website.
Chris.... Lybrary.com preserving magic one book at a time. http://www.lybrary.com/
By: Trini Montes
Paul Green has a wonderful video on the Classic Force. I would highly
recommend it if you do this force. And, if you don't do this force,
and are looking for another force to do, Paul's video is excellent.
By: Brad Ambrose
For magician types I like to ring in a force deck.
For the aveage Joe/Jane I like the second deal.
By: Nathan Marsh
Gary Kurtz' handling of the slip force is what I use 99% of the time
(taught on his first video and in Unexplainable Acts)...I use the MC
spread double lift (Workers 2) or another variant of the Hofsinzer
cull force the other 1% of the time (though someday i'm going to
master that darn classic force)...
By: Josh Mandel
Like bunkyhenry, I prefer the cut force (also known as the criss-cross
force). As he said, it's amazing that it fools people, but it does so
every time, and because the magician hardly touches the cards, I think
it looks much fairer than the riffle force (my former favorite). If
the cut force isn't appropriate, I use the classic force. The Paul
Green tape already recommended is indeed very worthwhile; I now do a
face-up classic force for my color-changing deck routine and it works
a good 85% of the time.
By: Glenn Lawrence
If you want a force that is different from what everyone else is
doing, check out the book "Anneman's Card Magic." In it, there is one
called The Force that Couldn't Be Done. Your spectator lifts off any
amount of cards from the top of the deck, you then allow him/her to
lift off more, drop some back on, whatever, you dont' care. Spec
discards those he has lifted off, the next card (the one now left on
top) is his "choice" card. Very powerful, the spec swears he has a
free choice because he could have added cards back, taken more, etc. I
would guess most magi don't know about this because they are too busy
buying the latest hot video to notice the treasure hidden in old but
great books!
By: Scott K.
Glenn,
That sounds exactly like the "Impossible Card Force" which is explained in full detail on Eugene Burger's video, "Real Secrets."
I agree, the force is incredible... but it is best used at the beginning of a routine.
By: n8
I've been doing card magic for only six months. I am now very glad
that I took the time to learn the classic. It is by far my best force
and, in my opinion, the most effective. The best part is it can be set
up in an instant.
By: Magic Mike
I always try to classic force, but when it doesn't work I do Gary
Oulett's out. I also do a hodgepodge of other forces for my "pick any
card but the four of diamonds" routine.
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