By: Jeff Blood
I need to decide very soon if we should purchase headset mics or lapel
mics for use in magic shows. Since feedback from the amp is sometimes
a problem, could experienced users give me their opinion on which way
we should go. We will need 2 mics and we plan on getting mics that
have 2 antennas in the transmitter box. Thanks.
By: magicduck
Personally, I like the lapel mics because they are so inconspicuous
and in no way effect body movement. I do not care for the headset
mics, mainly because of appearance. They suit Garth Brooks better than
magicians I think. The headset mic is easier to setup without
feedback, however either should do the job with care.
By: Jason Y-H
That's what I was going to say. If you want to look like you have a
microphone then get the headset mics, it looks more like you are
performing (which may suit you if you want to draw crowds or
something). But if youy are in a situation where everyone KNOWS you
are the performer or you just don't want to be hindered by the mic,
the lapel mics would be your choice. It's all in what you want to look
like. You want to look like you have a mic or look like you
don't. Both will work.
By: Bob K
I'd agree with the other replies. There are some times when you might
want a headset mike- perhaps if you're using a PA when doing street
magic and want the headset to help draw attention to yourself, or if
you want to look like a music star. But generally I think the lapel
mike is a better way to go.
Also, why do you want antenna's on the the transmitter box? Usually you have the transmitter on your body (probably clipped to you belt)- the antenna there is just something else to get in the way. Get the antenna on the receiver box- it's not on your body and the antenna will be out of the way (and most wireless lapel mikes do have the antenna on the receiver).
One other thing- you can get wireless mikes from around $50 at Radio Shack, up to several hundred dollars from other places. The cheap Radio shack mikes are fine for the occasional performer that uses it 5-6 times a year, but if you expect to use it a lot you'll probably want to buy a more expensive one.
By: Kurt Kruze
I use both headset & handheld systems on a very regular basis ( the
Sure SM58 based systems are very good )
The headsets are great for acts where there is a lot of physical activity and it is not acceptable to hold the mike in place for extended periods i.e. illusion acts & dance acts. It is not too obtrusive & the pick-ups are very sensitive as well as directional so feedback is rarely a problem. Hand-helds are useful if you are working with a spectator & they need to be heard; used with stands, they are very versatile, especially for stand-up magicians.
The big problem with lapel mic's is their proximimity to the performers mouth - i.e. the distance away. They also tend to be omni-directional, which means they will pick up sound from all around, and not just the performer. This can lead to feedback problems, especially if the performer is working in front of the loudspeakers or the room accoustics are very bad. As mentioned previously, depending on your useage will partly decide for you how much you will spend on a system. My input would be that if you are working in a fixed venue, with known accoustics, then you can go for a lapel mike setup as you can fine tune it to suit your environment, if you so wish. Failing that, and you work in a variety of situations and accoustics, go for a headset or a handheld as the BEST and SAFEST option - spend as much as you can afford on one if your budget allows
I personally have used the Sure SM58-based Dual-Diversity systems for 10 years, and can swear by them ( they're not the most expensive either )
By: John H. Zander
The receivers that have two antennas are called "Duel Density" which
means when one signal cuts out the other picks it up uninterrupted. A
good idea. Something else you might want to consider is using a hand
held wireless mic with a neck holder. They work great. Get a good mic
DO NOT GO TO RADIO SHACK! Go to a music store and spend a few bucks. A
Shure SM58 is a great mic and will last forever. I have been a
professional musician for over 15 years and I own a music store. Feel
free to email me with any questions.
By: Tamaka
I was at Lances show and saw his mic. I also saw the one used for the
Phantom of the Opera production here in S.F.
I use this type. Its made by shure and it can be used as a lapel mic or you can, ( as I do and as I saw Lance and others use it ) tape it to your cheek bone area and run it over the ear and down the back to the transmitter. For me it is the best because I do alot of costume changes and because it runs under my shirts I can change and not worry about the mic moving or having to unhook the lapel mic then rehooking it and worring if its in the same location as I had it for the tech.
The mic cost was around $500.00, but for me a great investment for my needs.
By: Kurt Kruze
I'd go for the Handheld or Headset option, unless you are working in a
regular venue where you can fine tune the lapel mic's to suit the
accoustics. Lapel mic's are great for tv studio's but suffer badly
from feedback in other environments that working performers may find
themselves in.
The SAFE & PROFESSIONAL option would be the handheld or the headset; spend as much as you can on one, if you are likely to use it regularly. The Sure SM58 Dual-Diversity systems are excellent - I've used them trouble-free for about 10 years.
By: magicduck
I understand where you are coming from on this, as I pointed out
earlier the lapel mic is subject to more feedback problems. But that
is what I use and I find, if I take just a few minutes to set it up,
it works well even with 100 watts.
Regarding "handheld" or a mic in a stand, I just do not agree with that at all from practicality. I worked behind a mic for many years, that type, in broadcasting but hate them for magic. I hate the mic in a stand because you have it partially blocking the view, and you have to work with it and to it and around it--whether you like it or not. And the handheld is not an option at all for me. I cannot perform magic with one hand holding a mic.
I find that the wireless lapel, once it is setup correctly works well and even allows me to walk out into the audience, at times in front of my speakers, without any problems. But you are right, you do have to take some time to equalize it to the setting. But I would not trade the freedom it gives me for handheld, a stand or a headset. With the lapel it is very natural, just like not having a mic, except they can hear you.
By: Dynamite Magic
the problem with a wireless lapel-mic is that you need a powerfull
p.a.-system because the signal of such a small mic is much less then a
handheld one.
I have worked for many years with a mic on stand, and i hold it in my hand often during the show. I bought a wireless lapel-mic form SPIRIT but if just doesn't work well because in many places where a p.a. is already set up the set-up is bad so you will get a lot of feedback.
Of the 20 times i perform my show, i probably do 18 with the normale handheld mike. The SM58 is certainly one of the best !
By: Olde Rabbit
Billy McComb always prefers a hand held mic, which he uses with a
Lavalier, a chain going about his neck. He can hold the mic, then when
he needs to use both hands, the mic attaches to the Lavalier, and
hangs just below his chin. Works quite well, and you don't have to
deal with the stand, not being able to move, etc.
By: "BDC" -John
Well, here is my two cents worth as a musician/singer. I hate Shure
hand-held mic's. I do. Everyone uses them because they are so sturdy,
but I think they are so unreliable in sound quality. If you go the way
of a hand-held, and you really want the best sound quality, get an
Audio Technica. These produce a bright, vibrant tone that I have never
heard matched in 20 plus years. "Big Daddy Cool & The Swing Cats" use
Audio Technica mics.
I don't like lapel mics either. The consistency just has never been there enough for me to endorse any brand.
I do like most of the headset mics available. Plus, they look very hip.
If you really want to do it right though, check into the fiber optics microphones used in Broadway productions. They cost a mint but are worth it. I really like the type used in "Cats". They look like a thin stiff wire that protrudes from the hair line and sets in front of the forehead. They are invisible unless close-up. There are slightly larger ones that look like small lapel mics, but attach to the temple with spirit gum or latex. These mics are used in "Les Miserables" and "Phantom Of The Opera". Sorry that I don't have any brand names, but the sound quality is amazing on these types.
By: Jason Y-H
Sorry, I have to respectfully disagree with you on the Audio
Technicas. They are good, and I have two of them for my own use, I
just like the Shures better. I guess it can depend on the type of
sound you want as I am not going for a real bright tone. I would
discourage your using a hand-held for your purposes (not you BDC), it
just wouldn't be practical.
I agree with the lapel mics, however, if you aren't singing I think you can live with the sound quality.
Headset mics do look very hip, and I like using them whenever I can, especially useful for when you are playing an instrument (piano) at the same time and you don't want to have to keep your face in the same place. If you get a good one you will get good quality, but I think what you are really paying for is the versatility with the benefit of superior sound quality.
I don't think anyone other than musicals REALLY need fiber optic mics, but if you want to spend the money they certainly are a nice set-up. Let us know what you decide.
By: Amos McCormick
Last year I attended a handbell festival where the clinician had a
novel application (at least to me) of a Shure UT14/93 wireless
lavalier mike. Since her arms were constantly in motion (much like a
magician) she needed to get the mike and cord out of her way, so she
ran the cord up her back and put the mike above her forehead, in her
hair, at the base of her hairline. It picked up her speaking and
ringing exteremely well and, being about a half-inch square, was
undetectable.
Of course, this arrangement DOES assume that one has a hairline... ;o)
By: "Big Daddy Cool"
That is what's done for Broadway style stage productions.
By: Olde Rabbit
Background: On Sept. 9 I will be performing my Linking Rings routine
in a platform setting, in a PUD auditorium, with a 350 seat house. The
routine involves a steady rhyming patter as the rings link & unlink,
making their usual clanging noise.
The Utility District got tired of people slipping sound equipment out with their own, and now demands all sound and equipment must be PUD equipment, operated by one of their techs.
When I did my Linking Ring routine for the MT2 tape, the clanging caused my voice to cut out now and then. I have been advised by several magis this is also a chronic problem with wireless mics. Not simply cutting out, but doing so specifically due to clanging of Linking rings. We'll be using 2 wireless lapel mics, and 1 wirefull stand mic.
Question: Have any of you encountered this problem? If so, how did you handle it? I went looking for a cord to go around my neck so I could hang the stand mic just below chin level, but couldn't find any in electronics or music equip stores. I don't really want to wear a coat hanger.
Is there a way I can temporarily monkey with a wireless lapel mic so the clanging won't cut out my voice? Is there something the tech should know about which will solve the problem? Or does the problem truly exist at all?
If the problem is a true one, and a wirefull stand mic is necessary (they don't have wirefull lapel mics), could you please tell me how to fashion a neck strap which will look half way decent? I've only used a stand mic a couple times, on a stand, so aren't really familiar with them, size or configuration wise.
I know there are a lot here who do work with mics, have music stores, etc., so hopefully some of you can clue me in in time.
By: Ren
Here's my advice. I would keep the cordless lapel mike for your
patter. That shouldn't be a problem.
As for a mic picking up the clang of the rings, I would have them set up another microphone on a stand, but have them set it up about waist level or maybe a bit lower. That should be enough to capture the noise from the rings. You'd have to experiment a little at the dress rehearsal (if there is one) to see what sounds best.
I can't imagine the sound of the rings cutting off your patter. That problem was probably simply limited to the microphone on the videocamera that you used for the MT tape.
By: Frznrabit
I have expierenced this problem as well, and found out that it is
usually the quality of the mic. I dont have anything to offer as far
as mic types, but I did change around my routine. I would if possible,
arrange so the noise of the rings is at a silent part, or a natural
pause.
as well during the rings, I turn my head around allot, and most mic's wont pick up even my voice, trial and error.
By: TheDean - DeanHankey.com
YES this is a real problem... the rings act as a second antenna and
"steal" the signal away from the true receiver... It's kinda' wacky,
but it happens!
The good news is, Michael Ammar has the killer solution. It's simple and elegant. He has manufactured a simple, effective and good-looking "around the neck" mike holder.
I "ALWAYS" carry one (or more), even though I carry my own full and complete sound system (s). In events such as yours, this is the perfect solution. I bought a dozen of them the first time I saw him at one of the conventions some years ago. I have one placed everywhere... just in case!
By: Steve Thomas
As a guy who's worked around radio stations for 21 years, and worked
with every type of audio equipment, I've seen every kind of audio
problem. The rings ARE NOT acting as an antenna, the mic system or the
mixing board are probably equipped with limiting/compression, which
will take whatever sound is prominent, boost it, and at the same time,
compressing or supressing the lower noise, which in normal
circumstances is a desirable thing, but not in the case you
mentioned. If the board has a variable limiting/compression (and the
tech should know) you can defeat or reduce it, if it's a built-in
option in the mic system, it's probably not user-adjustable. Try
different mics, mine don't do that.
By: TheDean - DeanHankey.com
Thanks for your observations.
I guess the point of my post was lost... I was only trying to "help" offer a solution to a situation at hand.
Thanks for your opinion! The information I have is from both a factory wireless technician and a national concert sound company, that doesn't mean I'm right about the "technical" problem, but the point was there is a very viable solution to OR challenge which is Michael's "Hands Free Mic Holder".
Thanks again!
PS
From my experience, most "Pro Live-Sound" boards (Mackie, Fender,
Yamaha, Allen Heath...etc) don't have compression/limiters on-board
with the exception of some boards used in local radio... which would
rarely, if ever be used in live show applications since that's not
what they are designed for... I used to have my own radio show as
well, so it's easy to see how one could be mistaken for another
By: Olde Rabbit
I'm relieved to know the board may be altered to get rid of the
problem, however I will only have the morning of the show to find out,
and will generally be stuck if altering the signal is not possible.
Therefore, I'll probably go for the neck holder. I'll check the linking pages for a webstite URL for Mike Ammar, but in the meantime, if anyone knows it and could post it, I'd appreciate it. I'll need to call and order Special Delivery, to make sure it gets here before Saturday. I'm in Seattle.
Actually, everyone who posted here was quite helpful, and I appreciate ALL your responses.
By: Rob Vanden Heuvel
I perused the Shop [at http://www.michaelammar.com] but
found no mention of a "Hands Free Mic Holder". Then I tried the Search
feature on "microphone" and "holder" but that came up empty as well. A
more general search led to the following tidbit:
"I have a Coomber PA speaker and microphone, with an excellent hands-free holder for it, from Mark Leveridge Magic."
Which prompted me to surf on over there where I dug up: http://www.markleveridge.co.uk/shopbask/products/mclp.html and http://www.coomber.co.uk/
Note that these are UK sites though. Something closer to home would surely be cheaper.
Ain't the Internet grand?
By: Bob K
I've been using a Gim-Crack for about 8 years now. Bryan Dean gave it
a plug in Magic and Illusions Magic Tip #24:
" Or, get one of those great microphone holders that go around the neck. Look for them from Malloy Magic ($35) or the model called Gim-Crack microphone holder for $12 postpaid. You can get them from John Swomley. The Gim-Crack got rave reviews in Genii, MAGIC, The Linking Ring and many, many professional magicians! Get one... for the $12, it's practically free and you will need it, I can assure you!"
You can email John Swomley at trickyperson@webcombo.net
By: Tighedini
Magicsmith ists the Pro Mike Holder for $15 on p. 7 of thir new
catalog. It looks exactly like the one paid $30 for a couple of years
ago and works wonderfully. It's the type that goes around the neck
with black adjustable band and frame which supports various size
mikes.
By: TheDean - DeanHankey.com
Here too is another idea I have used successfully, B.M.A. (Before
Michael Ammar)
A simple bit of rope will suffice. I have seen Bev Bergeron, (Spelling) Karrel Fox, Mike Caldwell and others use a small loop of rope to hang around the neck with another even smaller loop to hang the mic. K.I.S.S. is always the best and that will suffice in a pinch, and It looks like something a magician would do...
By: Olde Rabbit
I was able to find the Ammar site (thanks) and wrote to them, as I
didn't find the mic holder listed there, either. I received a very
kind email back from Hannah, saying it was no longer available. I
suggested to her that they consider re-offering it to the community
and she thought it was a good idea, as Michael insists on having his
handy.
Dean Hankey was extremely generous in offering to send me one of his, and it is in the mail now, hopefully will arrive before Saturday so I can use it in my show.
I printed out the info from Steve Thomas, about the circuit on the sound board, and will take that info with me to the tech rehearsal Saturday morning, and approach the sound tech before doing anything else. If the circuit is on the board, the sound tech is aware of it, and it can be turned off or muted, I'll have him do that. If not, hopefully I'll have Dean's mic holder to wear. If that fails, I may go on a scavenger hunt for a wire coathanger and some black electrician's tape.
However, I would also like to thank the rest of you who had suggestions, or came up with links, email addresses, etc., of other outlets for mic holders. I will check all of them out, as I really do prefer the reliability of a wired mic.
I'll let you know how it went early next week. Thanks so much to all!
By: Alain Aslag Roy
I'm not a deeply experienced kid show performer yet, but I am trying
to gain experience. My wife was talking at work (an elementary school)
about how I am a magician, and she got a couple of people interested
in having me perform at the school. I have at least one clear
opportunity:
I may perform in April for the entire elementary school, kindergarden through fifth grade, which is about 150 students. I would perform in the gym, which isn't a huge gym, but isn't tiny. I would perform two shows, about 75 students each. One show would be kindergarden through second grade, the other show would be third through fifth grade.
I'm not worried about material for the show: I have developed sufficient material that will work for this age group and be visible to all of them in a room of this size.
I am worried that I may need to use a microphone. I realize it may be hard to give perfect advice without seeing the actual gymnasium, but I'm wondering if people have some clue as to whether or not I should use a microphone. My wife tells me that 75 kids can be surprisingly compact, but I figure they'll still cover a fairly large area. I can be on the floor of the gym or on a stage, my choice.
Do you think I'll need a microphone? If I do, do you have any advice on how to learn to become comfortable with one? I've read the advice on the Collected Wisdom of MagicTalk, but the advice has more to do with choosing a microphone than when to use one or how to use it effectively. Would lack of experience with a microphone be a reason to turn down the show?
By: Steve V
Your lovely bride is correct, 75 kids fit into a small space. Last
school I did was 60 kids seated and they could hear no problem.
By: Michael Sibbernsen
Small the group may be, but 75 kids can make a lot of noise whispering
and giggling if you do not have their undivided attention. I highly
recommend the use of the microphone and sound system. The school will
undoubtably have one if you do not.
By: Adam V
I would recommend a microphone. If not just so you can be heard
better, it's a great way of making it clear who's in charge. Kids are
less likely to try to walk all over you when you have a mic.
By: leodini
Before I accept a school show, I always present the school
administration my technical requirements. Apart from a performance
venue, I make sure that I'm provided with a basic sound system, one
equipped with a working tape deck, two microphones and two mike
stands. (Since your program is different from mine, you may need only
one mike and one mike stand.)
The children could get very noisy during the show, and they'll drown your voice with their noise if you don't have a microphone. Building rapport with 75 kids in a gym could be a daunting task without a mike, in my opinion.
The mike stand frees your hands to perform your tricks. It's awkward (sometimes even impossible) to be holding a microphone in one hand and doing secret moves or holding props with the other.
The downside to the use of microphones and mike stands is that they could get in your way during the performance. That is why, when I practice my routines at home, I include in my practice microphone and mike-stand handling as integral part of my show.
One other crucial point: I always make sure that the tape deck provided me is working. You'd be surprised how many schools have sound systems, complete with amplifiers, that have tape decks that don't work. I don't like show-time surprises, so at the day of the signing of the performance agreement with the school representatives I go over with them my checklist of technical requirements to determine ahead of time what are available. I bring my own microphone and mike stand if the school can't provide them. For my music, a midi-player is a handy companion.
By: "Big Daddy Cool"
Short answer: Yes you need a mic.
School gymnasiums are notoriously loud rooms because of the lights and ventalation. Just stand in an empty gym and you'll see what I mean. Add children to that mix and you'll be drowned out in a heartbeat. If you are unacustomed to using a mic, I recommend a lapel mic. It will give you the volume you need, but it won't get in the way. You can rent these. See what the school is willing to cough up. You can get corded or wireless lapel mics. I recommend wireless, but a corded mic will be cheaper. Go to a local music store and check out what they have...
By: Bob K
For $10-$12 you can get a Gimcrack. It's a neck loop that holds a
microphone so you're hands are free and you're not tied to a
stationary stand.
It used to be available in 2 sizes- one for a standard mike and one for wireless mike.
I've been using one for about 12 years and highly recommend it if you aren't using a lapel mike.
By: Magic Duck
Once, when my PA system failed, and all the school had was a big old
mic with a stand, I took a piece of magician's rope and made my own
mic necklace. I find it hard to work to a mic in a stand, but that
worked quite well. Bob's idea is certainly better, but the concept is
good. Someone once told me that Billy McComb used the rope and mic.
By: Ed Millis
As others have already said, yes, use the mic if you have one
available. Aside from the ambient noise in the gym, and the whispers
and moving around of 5-10 year old kids, I'm assuming you're going to
want some audience participation, which is probably going to be
loud. In a gym, it will also be echoing. You are going to need to
over-ride everything from time to time, and nothing beats an amplified
voice.
Get there early enough to fine-tune the system to your voice. If the speakers are on a stand, move them to the front of your stage or performing area, between you and the kids. This will minimize feedback (squawks and squeals) from the mic to the speakers.
Then play with the equalizer. A decent starting setting is with the lows or bass set about 1/4 from full off, the mid about halfway, and the highs or treble just slightly above the bass setting. Listen for howls or rumbling - turn your lows down - or after-rings (where you speak something sharply and you hear a "ring" after the word) - turn your highs down. If the problems still persist, see if you can move the speakers farther out, or angle them slightly away from you. A lot is going to depend on the type and quality of the system you're working with. Just take the time to get it as best you can - if they can't understand you, your show will lose impact. And remember - if you use "play" voices in a kid's trick, get loud, or yell sharply, practice those in the mic, too, before the show.
Good luck. Let us know how it goes.
By: JohnIrwin
I too have performed for 60-80 kids with no problems but in a much
more enclosed setting (camp lodge). One of the main problems with a
gym is the high ceiling (ie. lack of reflected sound off the ceiling),
which can swallow sound and make it necessary to use a mic.
Steve is right that if the kids are busy talking to each other and messing around you don't have their attention. I saw a magician the other night do a kids show (cub scouts) and his method of getting their attention was badgering and threating them. This, of course, didn't work as well as good routining would have. Helpful if the first trick is both quick, but also grabs their attention.
By: Jeffery S
using a mic gives instant credibility to kids in the audience.
By: Steve V
That I agree with (also I've never played in a gym so don't know about
sound but still don't think you need a mic). A mic does make one look
like an official entertainer. I think a mic stand gets in the way and
if ones voice cannot carry the 7 rows of kids then the around the neck
one like the Bobster said or a lapel mic would be prefered.
By: Bryan Dreyfus
dint read the entire string so i may be repeating ...but....due to my
extensive experience with gym shows....I will say this:
1. Use a mic!
2. If you cannot get a lapel mic....rig up a nice cord set-up to make two loops for the mic "handle" to go through and hang it around your neck.......attach the mic wire to a belt loop under the back of your jacket (just tie it with yarn or shoelace) and set your sound levels. Just remember when you bend forward it will swing out a bit...I discovered this by necessity.
It'snoth the best but it will suffice....I used it for three years doing 4-5 school shows a day for 4.5 yrs.
By: Adam V
There's absolutely nothing wrong with using a piece of rope to hold
your microphone. I do it and so does Chuck Fayne who showed it to me.
A friend of mine said that if you use a piece of rope instead of a $35 Phil Cass one your audience will hate you from the word go and think you're a bad magician.
She's a moron.
By: Steve V
I would say if it looks nice, like weaving the rope into the loops
(Navy fashion) or if you can do a rope manipulation that ends up with
the rope being set to use to hold the mic you are okay. If just taking
a rope and doing it with reg. knots it is a bit tacky.
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