Re: Ba'ch Vie^.t - Ly' La~o

[hduc@airmoon.epa.nsw.gov.au]

On Sun, 27 Jul 1997, Trac Duy Tran wrote:

> 
> 
> Anh Aiviet was right.  Ne^'u to^i nho+' kho^ng la^`m, DDa.i Vie^.t Su+?
> Ky' Toa`n Thu+ co' che'p to^? tie^n ho. Tra^`n dde^'n tu+` dda^'t Ma^n,
> chi? trong vo`ng mo^.t the^' ky? ru+o+~i thi` Tra^`n Ca?nh le^n ngo^i 
> hoa`ng dde^'.  (Nho+` anh Aiviet check la.i reference du`m cho, bo^. na`y 
> to^i dde^? la.i o+? Madison ma^'t ro^`i).
> 
> Tra'c
> 

Hi anh Tra'c,

You are right. But not quite what i would like to say which i will 
explain further on. 

First , let quote the "DDa.i Vie^.t Su+? Ky' toa`n thu+", Vol.5 , Ky? Nha` 
Tra^`n on Tha'i To^ng Hoa`ng DDe^' :
(Vie^.n Khoa Ho.c Xa~ Ho^.i Vie^.t Nam, 1993)

"..
Tru+o'c kia, to^? tie^n vua la` ngu+o+`i dda^'t Ma^n (co' ngu+o+`i no'i 
la` ngu+o+`i Que^' La^m), co' ngu+o+`i te^n la` Kinh dde^'n o+? hu+o+ng 
Tu+'c Ma(.c, phu? Thie^n Tru+o+`ng, sinh ra Ha^'p, Ha^'p sinh ra Ly', Ly' 
sinh ra Thu+`a, ddo+`i ddo+`i la`m nghe^` dda'nh ca'. Vua la` con thu+' 
cu?a Thu+`a, me. ho. Le^, sinh nga`y 16 tha'ng 6 na(m Ma^.u Da^`n...."

Now if you notice anh AiViet mentioned (i believe anh AiViet quoted 
Tra^`n Quo^'c Vu+o+.ng in his book "Theo Do`ng Li.ch Su+?)) that most of the 
people on the coast of Vietnam 
and Southern China, including Formosa or Taiwan, was populated by non-Han 
people which had origins of Malayo-Polenesian. These people had litle 
taboo on marrying close relatives. This practice was frowned upon by the 
Han Chinese who came to contact with these sea-faring people.

The immigrant from Ma^n who was later the Tran king claimed 
heritage probably came from these people in the Southern Coast of China. 
There are ample evidence of this (see Tran Quoc Vuong) and the fact that 
the sea-tradition of these people and the habit of tattoing are aliens to 
the Han Chinese.

Cheers,

Hiep Nguyen