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VNSA-L digest 288



			    VNSA-L Digest 288

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Re[2]: VN contra China,pseudo-intellectual distorsions ??
	by Aiviet Nguyen <aiviet@cat.syr.edu>
  2) Re: Vietnam and China
	by Buulong Nguyen <buulong@dutmpw1.tudelft.nl>
  3) Re: South East Asia sea 
	by Buulong Nguyen <buulong@dutmpw1.tudelft.nl>
  4) Re[2]: VN contra China
	by Buulong Nguyen <buulong@dutmpw1.tudelft.nl>
  5) One question to everybody
	by Sonnet Nguyen <Sonnet.Nguyen@fuw.edu.pl>
  6) ASIA_3AS_MTV_GENERATION_ (fwd)
	by Tuong-Vinh Ho <vho@info.polymtl.ca>
  7) Medical Imaging - image co-registration
	by VU KHAC TRI <tvk@info.fundp.ac.be>
  8) Re: Nuclear Power
	by VU KHAC TRI <tvk@info.fundp.ac.be>
  9) Re: Ca^`n giu'p:Tu+. ddie^?n Lac Vie^.t EVA
	by VU KHAC TRI <tvk@info.fundp.ac.be>
 10) PAKISTAN_WEDDINGS (fwd)
	by Tuong-Vinh Ho <vho@info.polymtl.ca>
 11) Re: Vietnam and China
	by xuanlong(9525051) <xuanlong@postech.ac.kr>
 12) Re: Vietnam and China
	by VU KHAC TRI <tvk@info.fundp.ac.be>
 13) fw: Shrimp leaves environmental aftertaste
	by "Thai Nguyen" <tinguyen@nortel.ca>
 14) fw: GDP
	by "Thai Nguyen" <tinguyen@nortel.ca>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Topic No. 1

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 07:35:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Aiviet Nguyen <aiviet@cat.syr.edu>
To: vnsa-l@csd.uwm.edu
Subject: Re: Re[2]: VN contra China,pseudo-intellectual distorsions ??
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.970320072110.18756A-100000@lynx.cat.syr.edu>


Hi Ca'c Bo^ Die^n Ho^`ng,
  To^i cu~ng xin ba`n ba^.y ma^'y ca^u. Ne^'u no^.i bo^. TQ co' va^'n 
dde^` thi` ho. cu~ng thi'ch dda'nh nhau la('m. Ve^` ma(.t kinh te^' ma` 
no'i dda'nh nhau se~ la`m TQ ho?ng ddi tie^'n tri`nh pha't trie^?n kinh 
te^'. Ma` ta la.i ca`nh thie^.t ho+n. Dda'nh nhau la` to^'n tie^'n va` 
che^'t ngu+o+`i. Coi sa?n lu+o+ng da^`u trong the^`m lu.c ddi.a ta.i 
Ddda.i Hu`ng va` Ba.ch Ho^? coi co' dda'ng dda'nh nhau kho^ng.
  Ne^'u no' ddang khoa'i dda'nh ta thi` ta co^' nhie^n kho^ng ne^n dda'nh.
Cho+` bo.n no' ca('n nhau xem sao. Ne^'u no' nga.i dda'nh ta, thi` ta 
cu~ng ne^n xa(n tay a'o gia? bo^. thi'ch dda'nh la^'y ve cho+i. To'm la.i 
cu+' he't toa'ng ro~ to . Ma^'y nu+o+'c tre^n The^' gio+i nha^'t la` My~ 
dda^u co' thi'ch TQ ma.nh. Ne^' mi`nh kho^ng he't le^n thi` ai ngu+o+`i 
ta le^n tie^'ng. Co`n sau ddo' thi` pha?i lu+.a tho+`i.
  Vie^.t nam mi`nh co`n may cha'n. Hungary co`n na(`m giu+~a hai the^' 
lu+.c to to^? bo^' la` Nga va` DDu+'c. Theo anh na`y thi` anh kia ne^.n. 
Cuo^'i cu`ng thi` dda^'t cu~ bi. ma^'t he^'t, chi? co`n nho? xi'u.
  Co' mo^.t tha(`ng tho^i cu~ng de^~ ho+n. To^i nghi~ ta tha('ng Ta`u 
nhie^`u bo+?i vi` thua cu~ng la('m. Cha(?ng bie^'t ma.nh ye^'u nga`y nay 
ra sao, nhu+ng da^n Vie^.t ta cha('c cha(?ng chi.u Ta`u ho'a dda^u. 
To^i chi? nga.i bi. no^ di.ch ve^` Va(n ho'a tho^i.


On Thu, 20 Mar 1997, Viet Hung Nguyen wrote:

> Hi all,
> To^i cho ra(`ng se~ kho^ng co' dda'nh nhau lo+'n giu+~a VN va` TQ. Vi` TQ
> kho^ng da'm, bo+?i vi` ba?n tha^n no^.i bo^. TQ cu~ng co' nhie^`u va^'n
> dde^`, TQ ma` dda'nh nhau vo+'i VN se~ la`m che^' ddo^. hie^.n ha`nh o+?
> TQ de^~ bi. ddo^? ho+n. The^' gio+'i thu+o+`ng hay "so+. vi'a" TQ ho+n
> la` thu+.c lu+.c cu?a ho. Du` la` ho^? ddi cha(ng nu+~a cu~ng co' ddie^?m
> ye^'u chu+'.
> 
> To^i vo^'n kho^ng bie^'t nhie^`u, co' y' kie^'n nhu+ va^.y . Mong
> ca'c ba'c chi? gia'o.
> 
> Cheers
> Hu+ng.
> 

------------------------------

Topic No. 2

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 13:36:21 +0100 (MET)
From: Buulong Nguyen <buulong@dutmpw1.tudelft.nl>
To: huy.duong@ctsu.ox.ac.uk
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <vnsa-l@csd.uwm.edu>
Subject: Re: Vietnam and China
Message-ID: <Pine.HPP.3.91.970320132844.11786B-100000@dutmpw3.tudelft.nl>

Dear anh Huy,

Thanks a lot for your analysis and information.

Could you please provide us more information on commonwealth with France?
- What are the requirements for membership?
- Does Vietnam with its today's political system fulfill those requirements?
(with other words: Are there requirements on political structure to members?)
- If "no", do you think Vietnamese leaders are ready to revise/adapt 
their policy (Hopefully I do still not touch a taboo subject :-)).

Hope to hear more from you.


On Thu, 20 Mar 1997 huy.duong@ctsu.ox.ac.uk wrote:

> Dear anh Long and friends,
> 
> I don't think China's deal to buy aircraft carriers materialised.
> In anycase, having the AC is one thing but it takes many years to
> obtain the ability to operate a battle group with aircraft carrier.
> On the other hand, Vietnam is already experienced in operating
> fighters vectored by radars. And an aircraft carrier can field a
> limited numbers of planes. 
> 
> Politically, a battle group with aircraft carrier is primarily an instrument
> for the projection of power. The US, Japan and ASEAN will be threatened
> if China sends a battle group with aircraft carrier into the centre
> of South East Asia. Regarding this, it is important that the US
> sees this as agression by a dictatorship against civil ASEAN, not
> a fight between two brothers.
> 
> About France. Recently France has been the first country to propose many
> peace keeping operations. France is one of the countries that is quickest to
> send forces to protect its interests and nationals. In the 80s France helped
> Chad, once its colony, to fight Lybian aggression. France was one of the 
> countries which defined the borders between Vietnam and China. If Vietnam asks 
> France for help to defend these borders, France's pride and colonial romanticity
> will oblige it to give at least material help. We have only to gain to enter 
> into treaty with France. 
> 
> Huy
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Topic No. 3

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 13:37:02 +0100 (MET)
From: Buulong Nguyen <buulong@dutmpw1.tudelft.nl>
To: vnsa-l@csd.uwm.edu
Subject: Re: South East Asia sea 
Message-ID: <Pine.HPP.3.91.970320133637.11786C-100000@dutmpw3.tudelft.nl>

Good idea! Bravo!

On Thu, 20 Mar 1997 huy.duong@ctsu.ox.ac.uk wrote:

> Dear friends,
> 
> I propose that the rightful name of the body of water surrounded by
> Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Brunei, the Phillippines,
> and China, ie where the ratio of SEA nations to non-SEA nations is 7 to 1,
> be THE SOUTH EAST ASIA SEA.
> 
> I propose that Vietnam campaigns for this among the other ASEAN countries.
> 
> This name is more politically and geographically correct that the misnomer
> `South China Sea'. This name is in accordance with the spirit of
> cooperation that will help South East Asia to build peace and prosperity.
> This name emphasises the fact that South East Asia against any one nation
> thinking that it owns the sea. Such greed is a threat to peace, cooperation
> and prosperity, not only for the globally important region of South East Asia, 
> but also further afield, eg the trade routes between Japan, Korea and the Middle 
> East, Africa and Europe.
> 
> Huy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Topic No. 4

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 14:28:16 +0100 (MET)
From: Buulong Nguyen <buulong@dutmpw1.tudelft.nl>
To: nguyen.d@ccmail.cgi.fr
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <vnsa-l@csd.uwm.edu>,
Subject: Re[2]: VN contra China
Message-ID: <Pine.HPP.3.91.970320111304.11786A-100000@dutmpw3.tudelft.nl>

On Thu, 20 Mar 1997 nguyen.d@ccmail.cgi.fr wrote:

>      You talk a lot about strategy, but you forget the most important and 
>      basic thing : the men !!!

Dear anh Tuan and VNSA-friends, 

I have also sent a number of messages on "China-Vietnam" topic to this forum.

In those message I wrote that Vietnam wouldn't have any other choice but 
a resolute  military reaction. I have listed - to my naif idea - the reasons 
why we need to do that.

Yesterday I discussed the situation with my Dutch friends. They were 
shocked hearing me talking about war. A Dutch girl asked me: "what about
the Vietnamese people who lives in the country?, what about civilian 
victims of the war?" 

It is of course the key question we have to ask talking about war.

I think everyone of us does worry about that. I do too.

The problem however is: if Vietnam doesn't firmly react, it will lose the 
"game".

So we have to choose:

1). Peace for economical development and civil prosperity
2). Undertake a firm military reaction
3). Seaking international support
4). (a kind of combination of 1 & 2) Develop the economy, building up 
meantime military forces and by the first opportunity take back the 
territory occupied by China.

Let's consider every option listed above:

Option1: - This option seems to be sensible taking into account civilian
	loss and other miseries that a war brings with it.
	- Unfortunately it also has disadvantage, namely:  
		+ It means we have to tolerate the Chinese arrogance
	and to (impotently) see how China takes step by step our water
	territory with all natural resources (eg. oil &gas resources under 
	the continental shelf, sea foods ..) 
		+ It means that China, in the long run, will get full 
	control on the East Sea (wrongly called "South-Chinese Sea"). That
	will definitively affect Vietnam's economy and security.
		+ Who can ensure us that China will be satisfied with 
	Spratly and not going further South-wards (with ConSon as the 
	following target)
	
	Can we accept the damage?

Option2:  - It might seem to be crazy to talk about war just now, when 
	Vietnam economy begins to take up, when the Vietnamese people, after
	so many years  of war and economical depresssion, finally dare to hope
	for a better live and a bright future (economically, at least) 
	  - On the other hand it seems to be the only way for Vietnam to
	maintain its sovereignty and to avoid further territory loss. 
	  - Besides, a military conflict in SEA is unwanted by a number of 
	countries because of their economical interest, so hopefully they 
	will undertake some actions to regulate the conflict
	  - The disvantages of this options are well known:
		+ the country will be involved in war. No economical
 	development will be possible. Our people will be killed. Civilian 
	loss is unpredictable.
		+ AND, nobody can ensure us whether we can win that war. 
	Even if positive, we have to consider wheter the loss will be
	tolerable.


Option3:   - Vietnam can try to seak (and find?) international support 
	for a peaceful solution of the conflict, but it seems to me a 
	utopic idea in  despair.
	    We have seen how the world relaxedly watched the skirmish 
	between chinese and vietnamese warships in 1988 and how the chineses, 
 	occupied two islands of the Spratly archipelago.
	    It seems to me that the US, the West, Japan and the ASEAN 
	countries handle until now on the princple "watch and wait".
	As if they don't care whether Vietnam loses  sovereignty on   
	its water territory or not. 
	   - As anh Huy Duong already pointed out in his messages, 
	Vietnam can reckon on international support only if it becomes a 
	"civil society" belonging to the world democratical community. It 
	is still, unfortunately, not the case.
	   - the international community will be however worried by a 
	military conflict in the South-East-Asia Sea. Let's do not forget 
	how important this sea is for this sea lane between Middle East 
	and East/South-East Asia, and how enormous the affect can be to 
	air traffic when the war blasts. Maybe those countries will take 
	then another position? (Cu+' nha('m tha(?ng va`o ca'i da. da`y 
	ma` dda'nh, da^n gian ta ba?o the^')  

	So maybe it is not a too bad idea just to give a firm military 
	answer to the recent chinese provocation.    

Option4: - It sounds to opportunist. How long does it takes before such 
	opportunity occurs? Such opportunity can be a "loa.n su+' qua^n" 
	that weakens China. But if we are going to undertake a military 
	adventure , we'll be confronted with the same problems as by
	 Option 2.
	 - When we restrain ourselves trying  to develop the economy, the 
	chineses do not wait. It will go ahead in completing its 
	geopolitical ambitions
	 - Whether we ever get such opportunity?
_____________________________________________________

I think I have to stop here with bothering you.

The bitter truth is that we, Vietnamese people - abroad or inside the 
country -  do not have any influence on the policy regarding this 
territorial dispute with China.

The decision is up to the today's Vietnamese leaders. Let's hope they 
will be healthy minded when seaking solution for this problem.

Someone of us wrote that the national interest should be put higher than 
interest of any body, let it be a king or an elite group of people. Let's 
hope this healthy thought will come home to people who has the power to 
say the last word.

Take care, my friends

Buu-Long
________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Topic No. 5

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 16:34:12 +0100 (MET)
From: Sonnet Nguyen <Sonnet.Nguyen@fuw.edu.pl>
To: VNSA-l <vnsa-l@csd.uwm.edu>
Subject: One question to everybody
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.95.970320160924.199A-100000@albert3>

Hi friend,
I have a good friend who is socjologist and he has one question to you: 
Consider the following elementary problem (interpolation's problem):
Given n points in the Euclides space R^{3}. Find a smooth (minimal) 
surface containing these points.

Questions: 1) Is there a grafical program which can do that? (mathematica,
              plot, ...)
           2) If we want to find a polynomial of 2 variables
              which has a graph containing n points, then are
              expressions of polynomial's coefficients known?   

Please a quick answear.
SN

BTW. The similar 2-dimensional problems are Newtonian and
     Lagrangian. 


------------------------------

Topic No. 6

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 10:53:13 -0500 (EST)
From: Tuong-Vinh Ho <vho@info.polymtl.ca>
To: vnsa-l@csd.uwm.edu
Subject: ASIA_3AS_MTV_GENERATION_ (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.95.970320105143.1447A-100000@pascal>


Hello friends,

I found that interesting article at VOA site.
Enjoy it.

Vinh
-----------------------


     TITLE=ASIA'S MTV GENERATION

     CONTENT=// INSERTS AND VOICED VERSION IN AUDIO SERVICES

INTRO:   THERE WILL BE MORE THAN ONE BILLION PEOPLE BETWEEN THE
         AGES OF TEN AND 24 IN ASIA BY THE YEAR TWO THOUSAND,
         CREATING A GENERATION POWERFUL ENOUGH IN NUMBERS TO
         RADICALLY RESHAPE THE BUSINESS CLIMATE, SOCIAL FABRIC,
         AND POLITICAL INSTITUTIONS OF THE REGION.  VOA'S LINDA
         CASHDAN REPORTS THIS NEW GENERATION WAS BORN IN TO A
         WORLD RADICALLY DIFFERENT FROM THE ONE THEIR PARENTS
         KNEW.

TEXT:    THE YOUTH OF ASIA ARE GROWING UP BETTER EDUCATED IN
         SOCIETIES MORE PROSPEROUS THAN THOSE OF THEIR PARENTS,
         WHO CAME OF AGE IN COUNTRIES LEFT SCARRED AND
         IMPOVERISHED IN THE AFTERMATH OF WORLD WAR TWO.  MORE
         IMPORTANT AS FAR AS BUSINESS IS CONCERNED, SAYS JOSEPH
         QUINLAN, SENIOR INTERNATIONAL ECONOMIST FOR THE NEW YORK
         INVESTMENT FIRM DEAN WITTER, THE YOUNGER GENERATION IS
         LESS PROVINCIAL AND MORE WORLDLY IN ITS OUTLOOK.

TAPE:    CUT #1 -- QUINLAN

         "THIS NEW GENERATION IS MUCH MORE ATTUNED TO FOREIGN
         EVENTS, MUCH MORE ATTUNED TO BUYING FOREIGN GOODS.  IN
         SOUTH KOREA THERE WAS A BAN ON FOREIGN GOODS IMPORTS OR
         CONSUMER GOODS.  ONLY, SAY, IN THE LAST TEN YEARS HAVE
         FOREIGN CONSUMER PRODUCTS BEEN ALLOWED TO GO TO MARKET
         IN PLACES LIKE SOUTH KOREA AND TAIWAN.  THERE'S A BETTER
         GLOBAL BRAND AWARENESS AND DESIRES AMONG THIS NEW
         GENERATION, AND THAT'S THE KEY.  THEY'RE VERY WELL
         PLUGGED INTO U-S FILMS AND U-S MUSIC.

TEXT:    SO WELL PLUGGED IN TO U-S FILMS AND MUSIC, IN FACT, THAT
         MR. QUINLAN REFERS TO THEM AS "M-T-V GENERATION."  M-T-V
         IS THE NAME OF THE POPULAR U-S ROCK MUSIC TELEVISION
         CHANNEL THAT HAS BECOME A CONDUIT FOR EXPORTING AMERICAN
         CULTURE AROUND THE WORLD.  WHILE THEIR PARENTS'
         GENERATION WAS HARD WORKING AND FRUGAL, MR. QUINLAN
         SAYS, ASIA'S M-T-V GENERATION PREFERS SHOPPING TO
         SAVINGS.  AS A RESULT, HE SAYS, PERSONAL CONSUMPTION IS
         EMERGING AS A PRINCIPAL ENGINE OF ECONOMIC GROWTH IN
         ASIA, COMPLEMENTING THE TRADITIONAL SOURCES OF ECONOMIC
         GROWTH -- EXPORTS AND PRIVATE CAPITAL.  U-S CONSUMER
         GOODS PRODUCERS HAVE BEGUN FLOCKING TO THE EMERGING
         MARKETS OF ASIA, HE SAYS, TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE
         TREND.

TAPE:    CUT #2 -- QUINLAN

         "EVERY THREE HOURS SOME PLACE IN THE WORLD A MACDONALDS
         OPENS UP AND THAT'S USUALLY IN THESE EMERGING MARKETS,
         SO THEY'RE TRYING TO CAPTURE THESE NEW CONSUMERS AS THEY
         COME ON STREAM.  COSMETICS IS BECOMING MORE OF A MIDDLE
         CLASS COMMODITY AND THERE ARE BIG MARKET OPPORTUNITIES
         THERE.  I WOULD ALSO SAY THE COMPUTER COMPANIES ARE
         TRYING TO COME UP WITH A MEDIUM PRICED, LOW PRICED
         COMPUTER SO THAT THIS GENERATION THAT WANTS TO BE WIRED
         IN OR PLUGGED IN WILL BE.  COKE IS THERE, PROCTER AND
         GAMBLE, UNILEVER, FINANCIAL SERVICE COMPANIES, A LOT OF
         RETAIL BANKING SERVICES.  IT CUTS ACROSS A BROAD
         SPECTRUM OF INDUSTRIES."

TEXT:    TO UNDERSTAND WHY ASIA IS AN INVESTORS PARADISE, MR.
         QUINLAN SAYS HE TELLS HIS CORPORATE CLIENTS, YOU NEED
         ONLY LOOK AT THE NUMBERS.  IN THE AGGREGATE, ASIA'S ARMY
         OF YOUNG CONSUMERS IS SEVEN TIMES THE SIZE OF COMPARABLE
         GROUPS IN EITHER LATIN AMERICA OR EUROPE, AND 16 TIMES
         LARGER THAN THE NUMBER OF YOUNG PEOPLE IN NORTH AMERICA.
         IN SOME NATIONS, SUCH AS CHINA, INDONESIA, VIETNAM, THE
         PHILLIPPINES AND MALAYSIA THE "M-T-V GENERATION" MAKES
         UP 30 PERCENT OR MORE OF THE POPULATION, COMPARED TO 20
         PERCENT IN THE UNITED STATES AND 18 PERCENT IN JAPAN.

         MR. QUINLAN SEES STRONG PARALLELS BETWEEN ASIA'S M-T-V
         GENERATION AND THE POST WAR BABY BOOMERS IN THE UNITED
         STATES.  BOTH, HE SAYS, WERE RAISED BY PARENTS WHO WERE
         DETERMINED TO GIVE THEIR CHILDREN THE ECONOMIC SECURITY
         THEY HAD LACKED, AND BOTH GROUPS WERE LARGE ENOUGH IN
         NUMBERS TO MAKE THEM A FORCE TO BE RECKONED WITH.
         WITHIN THE NEXT DECADE, HE SAYS, THE NEW ASIAN BABY
         BOOMERS WILL BE THE AGE THE AMERICAN BABY BOOMERS WERE
         DURING THE DAYS OF U-S STUDENT DEMONSTRATIONS IN LATE
         1960S.  BEWARE, HE SAYS, ASIA'S YOUTH MAY PROVE JUST AS
         FORMIDABLE.

TAPE:    CUT #3 --  QUINLAN

         "WHAT I WORRY ABOUT IS EXPECTATIONS NOT BEING FILLED.
         MY BIGGEST FEAR IS THAT AT SOME POINT THEIR DESIRES ARE
         BLOCKED OR THEY BECOME FRUSTRATED AND THEY EITHER TAKE
         ON MORE POLITICAL ACTIVISM, OR THERE'S A KIND OF A
         BACKLASH, A CULTURAL BACKLASH AGAINST WESTERN CULTURE.
         THE BIGGEST RISK TO ME IS ALSO IN PLACES LIKE A CHINA,
         WHERE YOU DO HAVE A SIGNIFICANT POPULATION THAT'S
         EMERGING THAT IS MORE AFFLUENT, EDUCATED, MORE AWARE OF
         WHAT'S GOING ON AND THAT'S GOING TO CREATE SOME
         POLITICAL AND SOCIAL TENSIONS GOING FORWARD."

TEXT:    IN THE MEANTIME, MR. QUINLAN SAYS, WESTERN
         CONSUMER-RELATED FIRMS ARE FLOCKING TO ASIA, HOPING TO
         POSITION THEMSELVES TO SATISFY THE WANTS AND NEEDS OF
         WHAT PROMISES TO BE ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL DEMOGRAPHIC
         SEGMENTS THE WORLD HAS EVER SEEN.   (SIGNED)

NEB/LC/NES*

20-Mar-97 8:58 AM EST (1358 UTC)
NNNN

Source: Voice of America
..



------------------------------

Topic No. 7

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 16:49:19 GMT
From: VU KHAC TRI <tvk@info.fundp.ac.be>
To: vnsa-l@csd.uwm.edu
Subject: Medical Imaging - image co-registration
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970320165349.0fb71782@info.fundp.ac.be>

Dear friend in vnsa,

Anyone is working or studying in this domain ? Could you contact
me, please.

I'm a Ph.D. student who is working in coregistration of PET, SPECT,
MRI, CT... will be very happy to exchange our ideas.

Best regard,

*-------------------------*-----------------------------------*
| VU KHAC Tri.            | Tel: +32-81-423411 (bureau)       |
| Medical Imaging Group   | Tel: +32-81-737832 (private)      |
| Institut d'informatique | Fax: +32-81-423408                |
| Rue de Grangagnage, 21  | http://www.info.fundp.ac.be/~tvk/ |
| 5000 - Namur, Belgium.  |                                   |
*-------------------------*-----------------------------------*


------------------------------

Topic No. 8

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 16:48:33 GMT
From: VU KHAC TRI <tvk@info.fundp.ac.be>
To: vnsa-l@csd.uwm.edu
Subject: Re: Nuclear Power
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970320165303.0fb73a64@info.fundp.ac.be>

Hi all,

Reading this message I'm very sorry. Just a little idea: Must we use this
power only for weapon. Could we use it for other things ?

I'm only a computer scientist on nuclear medicine, not a politician so that
can believe in this power of weapon can take peace for us.

Best regards.

>> I don't think Vietnam should need to have nuclear weapon at this point.
>> The fact is that it's very costly and very immoral to play with this
>> stuffs. We should not creat a second Manhattan Project. Instead we need a
>> good Pressurized Water Reactor than can provide at least 1500MWe power to
>> serve the country's economy. Most of the power plan was getting old and
>> can't keep up with the high demand of city people. Look around, how many
>> power plant are there in the country? Not much, right? This is what's we
>> need a Nuclear Power Reactor. A typical power reactor takes very long time
>> to build but it's very safe if we know how to operate it right, not making
>> mistake like the Russian did in Chelnobyl in 1985.
>> 
>> I'm a Nuclear Engineer myself. I'm opposing building a weapon is good
>> choice to do. Scientists who worked under the Manhattan project (The Fat
>> man and the Little boy) were the 2 nuclear bombs dropped over Japan,
>> these scientists did not know that they make a bomb at the time. We should
>> not need these stuffs again in the modern world. The U.S. is now having
>> almost 200 metric tons of Plutonium weapon grade of this stuff that need
>> to get rid of from the cold war.
>> 
>> I can go on forever on this stuffs but I have to get back with by works.
>> I'm sorry that I could not write in Vietnames phonetic code.  
>> 
>> On Wed, 19 Mar 1997 Yurong@oes.itri.org.tw wrote:
>> 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > Cha`o ba'c dang @ quickturn.com
>> > >-Die^^`u ba^^'t ha.nh nha^^'t cu?a VN co' le~
>> > >la` bi. la`m la'ng gie^^`ng vo*'i chu' kho^^?ng lo^^` Ta`u\.  Mo^^.t
nga`y na`o
>> > >chu' Ta`u kho^^ng "diet (gia?m ca^^n)" thi` VN mi`nh co`n bi. a(n
hie^^'p da`i
>> > >da`i\.  Vi` va^^.y QA nghi~ ra(`ng mi`nh pha?i ti`m ca'ch pha^^n
nu*o*'c Ta`u
>> > >tha`nh nhie^^`u nu*o*'c con con\.  Ne^^'u mi`nh co' ca'ch na`o
khuye^^'n khi'ch
>> > >da^^n thie^^?u so^^' o*? Ta`u no^^?i le^^n -do`i quye^^`n tu*. tri.
thi` hay bie^^'t
>> > >ma^^'y\.
>> > U+`, chuye^^.n na`y thi` ai cu~ng bie^^'t, My~ Nha^^.t ddang la`m
ma`\. Chuye^^.n
>> > Peaceful Evolution (Die^^~n bie^^'n hoa` bi`nh- chu+~ "Hoa` bi`nh"
dda^^y la`
>> > "im la(.ng, -a^^m tha^^`m, -kho^^ng tie^^'ng su'ng, -e^^m dde^^`m,
-bi`nh an, -tu+`
>> > tu+`",
>> > "Die^^~n bie^^'n" la` bie^^'n ddo^^?i, bie^^'n da.ng, bie^^'n ra-
Nguye^^n chu+~ Ta`u
>> > cu?a 4 chu+~ na`y la` "Hoa` bi`nh die^^~n bie^^'n") na`y cu~ng ddang
die^^~n tie^^'n
>> > dda^^'y\. Nguye^^n ca? kho^^'i USSR tan ra~ cu~ng vi` va^^.y\
>> > O+` ma` chi? nhu+ va^^.y, VN mo+'i so^^'ng no^^?i, chu+ Ta`u ma` lo+'n
ra, ddu+`ng
>> > no'i chi? VN so+., ai cu~Ng so+.
>> > 
>> > >Mo^^.t ca'ch nu*~a la` mi`nh co' -du*o*.c va`i qua? bom nguye^^n
tu*?\.  Mi`nh
>> > >chi? vie^^.c ca('m 1 qua? o*? Hoa`ng Sa, 1 qua? o*? Tru*o*`ng Sa,
va`i qua?
>> > >o*? bie^^n gio*'i VN-Ta`u, thi` mi`nh cha? co' gi` pha?i so*., cu`ng
la('m la`
>> > >che^^'t chung\.  70 trie^^.u -do^^?i 1 ty? mi`nh lo*`i cha'n!
Kho^^ng bie^^'t co'
>> > >ba'c dhs na`o ho.c ve^^` nga`nh va^^.t ly' nguye^^n tu*? kho^^ng\?
Co' le~ VN
>> > >ne^^n ho.c ca'ch che^^' bom nguye^^n tu*?\.
>> > >
>> > Kho^^ng lo+`i dda^^u ba'c o+i. Ba'c co`n nho+ ca^^u no'i ru`ng ro+.n
cu?a Mao
>> > Tra.ch
>> > DDo^^ng kho^^ng nhi?, "O+? dda^^u co' ma(.t tro+`i, o+? ddo' co' da^^n
Ta`u"\.
>> > 70T da^^n Vie^^.t che^^'t he^^'t, da^^n Ta`u va^^~n co`n ma`\. Va?
la.i no^^? bom
>> > nguye^^n tu+?, ca'c nu+o+'c kha'c che^^'t la^^y, ho. dda^^u dde^^?
ye^^n cho ta\.
>> > 
>> > Cha`o tha^^n
>> > Vinh


*-------------------------*-----------------------------------*
| VU KHAC Tri.            | Tel: +32-81-423411 (bureau)       |
| Medical Imaging Group   | Tel: +32-81-737832 (private)      |
| Institut d'informatique | Fax: +32-81-423408                |
| Rue de Grangagnage, 21  | http://www.info.fundp.ac.be/~tvk/ |
| 5000 - Namur, Belgium.  |                                   |
*-------------------------*-----------------------------------*


------------------------------

Topic No. 9

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 16:51:29 GMT
From: VU KHAC TRI <tvk@info.fundp.ac.be>
To: vnsa-l@csd.uwm.edu
Subject: Re: Ca^`n giu'p:Tu+. ddie^?n Lac Vie^.t EVA
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970320165558.0fb7c84e@info.fundp.ac.be>

Hi all,

Lac Viet Dictionary (Vietnamese<-->English) is actually
for free in my homepage.
Good luck.

*-------------------------*-----------------------------------*
| VU KHAC Tri.            | Tel: +32-81-423411 (bureau)       |
| Medical Imaging Group   | Tel: +32-81-737832 (private)      |
| Institut d'informatique | Fax: +32-81-423408                |
| Rue de Grangagnage, 21  | http://www.info.fundp.ac.be/~tvk/ |
| 5000 - Namur, Belgium.  |                                   |
*-------------------------*-----------------------------------*


------------------------------

Topic No. 10

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 10:58:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Tuong-Vinh Ho <vho@info.polymtl.ca>
To: vnsa-l@csd.uwm.edu
Subject: PAKISTAN_WEDDINGS (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.95.970320105326.1447B-100000@pascal>



Hi friends,

Co' bai` bao' nay` hay chuye^n? to+i' cho cac' bac' ddoc. cho+i. Nha^t'
la` cac' bac' cac' co^ chua^n? bi. hay se~ la^p. gia ddinh`. Nhu+ to^i
cha(ng? han., ddang tinh' cu+o+i' vo+. na(m sau nhu+ng bi. "vie^m mang`
tui'" ne^n kho^ng co' bie^t' la` se~ ve^` VN ddu+o+c. na(m sau hay kho^ng
dde^? lam` ddam' cu+o+i'. Nghe tha^y' moi. ngu+o+i` ke^? la` Vn ba^y gio+`
tie^u xai` ghe^ go+m' la(m'. Cuo^i' cung` thi` cung~ phai? qua so^ng
nhu+ng hy. vong. la` kho^ng phai? uo^ng' nu+o+c' no tru+o+c' khi ca^p.
be^n'.

Vinh




TITLE=PAKISTAN WEDDINGS
BYLINE=DOUGLAS BAKSHIAN
DATELINE=ISLAMABAD
CONTENT=
VOICED AT:

INTRO:  IN PAKISTAN MANY PEOPLE ARE WELCOMING A RECENT
(MID-MARCH) GOVERNMENT BAN ON SERVING FOOD AT WEDDINGS.  THE
MEASURE TARGETS THE WEALTHY WHO ARE KNOWN FOR LAVISH WEDDING
FEASTS IN A COUNTRY WHERE THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE ARE POOR.
V-O-A ISLAMABAD CORRESPONDENT DOUGLAS BAKSHIAN EXAMINES THE
ECONOMIC AND SOCIAL ASPECTS OF THE POLICY.

TEXT:  // BAGPIPE MUSIC FADED //

A BAGPIPE BAND PLAYS AT AN ISLAMABAD WEDDING -- JUST ONE PART OF
THE EXPENSIVE PRODUCTION MARRIAGES CAN BE.  BUT WEDDINGS ARE
CHANGING AS DEBT-RIDDEN PAKISTAN MOVES TO CUT DOWN ON WASTE.

A NEW GOVERNMENT BAN FORBIDS THE SERVING OF FOOD AT WEDDINGS IN
PUBLIC PLACES SUCH AS HOTELS, RESTAURANTS AND WEDDING HALLS, AND
SAYS ONLY TEA AND SOFT DRINKS ARE ALLOWED.  ALCOHOL, OF COURSE,
IS FORBIDDEN IN ISLAMIC PAKISTAN.  THE NEW POLICY DOES, HOWEVER,
PERMIT MEALS FOR FAMILY MEMBERS AND GUESTS INSIDE PRIVATE HOMES
DURING WEDDINGS.

AT AN ISLAMABAD MARKET PEOPLE WELCOMED THE CHANGE, SAYING IT WILL
MAKE LIFE EASIER FOR THE POOR, WHO ARE MOST OF THE POPULATION.

                    // MARKET VOICES ACT //

         (VOICE ONE:)  I THINK IT'S A GREAT IDEA, BECAUSE, I
         THINK, THERE'S A LOT OF WASTEFUL EXPENDITURE ON
         MARRIAGES AND A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE FORCED BY PEER
         PRESSURE TO SPEND THAT KIND OF MONEY.  AND I THINK MOST
         PEOPLE SEEM TO BE VERY HAPPY WITH IT FROM WHAT I'VE
         HEARD.
         (VOICE TWO:)  THIS IS A VERY GOOD IDEA BECAUSE THE POOR
         PEOPLE -- ESPECIALLY IN PAKISTAN THE MAJORITY IS POOR --
         AND THAT WAS A BIG BURDEN ON PARENTS ESPECIALLY FROM
         GIRLS' SIDE.  THE GIVING OF BIG-BIG DINNERS AND SERVING
         SO MANY FOODS
         (VOICE THREE:)  I THINK IT IS A GOOD THING AND IT ALSO
         REDUCES THE PRICES OF THE ITEMS.  LIKE CHICKEN AND RICE
         AND ALL THINGS AND PEOPLE WILL SAVE MONEY.  ESPECIALLY
         THE POOR PEOPLE I THINK WILL BE HAPPY FOR THIS.

                          // END ACT //

SOME CITIZENS SAY THE BAN SHOULD BE MODIFIED SLIGHTLY, ALLOWING
ONE-DISH MEALS.  TWENTY-TWO-YEAR-OLD SAIMA ASLAM HAS TRAVELLED TO
ISLAMABAD FROM BRITAIN FOR HER WEDDING (TAKING PLACE THIS MONTH).
SHE SAYS THE FOOD-BAN IS A GOOD CONCEPT BUT SHOULD BE ALTERED.

                        // ASLAM ACT //

         IN THEORY IT'S A VERY GOOD IDEA.  YOU KNOW CONSIDERING
         THE WAY MARRIAGES ARE DONE IN THIS COUNTRY WITH A LOT OF
         EXTRAVAGANZA AND FANFARE, WHICH ISN'T REALLY NECESSARY.
         BUT PRACTICALLY, I MEAN THERE ARE SOME PRACTICALITIES
         WHICH I DON'T THINK THEY'VE REALLY THOUGHT ABOUT.  LIKE,
         I MEAN, IF THE WEDDING PARTY IS TRAVELLING A GREAT
         DISTANCE, WHICH IS QUITE COMMON, THEN I MEAN IN THAT
         RESPECT IT'S  NOT  VERY PRACTICAL.  I THINK THEY SHOULD
         HAVE DIVIDED IT INTO DIFFERENT CATEGORIES.  I MEAN IF A
         MARRIAGE IS TAKING PLACE AND BOTH PARTIES ARE FROM THE
         SAME, YOU KNOW, TOWN OR WHATEVER.  THEN, I MEAN, THAT'S
         OKAY BUT, I MEAN, TRAVELLING A GREAT DISTANCE, I MEAN,
         THEY HAVE TO EAT DON'T THEY.

                          // END ACT //

MS. ALSAM'S WEDDING IS IN LAHORE, ABOUT 300 KILOMETERS FROM
ISLAMABAD.  HER UNCLE, ZAHEER AHMAD, ALSO SAYS TRAVEL IS AN
IMPORTANT CONSIDERATION.  HE GENERALLY SUPPORTS THE GOVERNMENT
POLICY, BUT ALSO THINKS A SLIGHT CHANGE IS WARRANTED.

                        // AHMAD ACT //

         SEE, PEOPLE IN MY COUNTRY THEY WOULD -- MOST OF THEM
         WILL -- STOP COMING BECAUSE IF THEY KNOW THAT AFTER
         TRAVELLING LET US SAY 100 KILOMETERS OR LET US SAY 300
         KILOMETERS, ALL THEY ARE GOING TO EAT IS JUST A CUP OF
         TEA, OR A COLD DRINK PROBABLY THEY'LL  NOT  COME.  MOST
         OF THEM WILL  NOT  COME.

                          // END ACT //

THE WEDDING FOOD BAN HAS HAD AN EFFECT ON PRICES.  THE COST OF
CHICKEN, A VERY POPULAR ITEM, DROPPED SHORTLY AFTER THE MEASURE
WAS ANNOUNCED MARCH 15TH.

BUT THERE ARE OTHER ECONOMIC EFFECTS.  OWNERS OF MARRIAGE HALLS,
CATERING AGENCIES, AND MOTELS SAY THE POLICY WILL DEVASTATE THEIR
BUSINESSES AND SUCH GROUPS HAVE HELD SCATTERED PROTESTS.  SHER
ZEMAN KHAN, OWNER OF THE DREAMLAND MOTEL IN ISLAMABAD, SAYS THE
GOVERNMENT MUST RETHINK ITS POLICY.

                         // KHAN ACT //

         I CAN'T RUN MY MOTEL WITHOUT CATERING BECAUSE I CAN'T
         BEAR THE EXPENSE OF THE MOTEL.  OUR ROOM BUSINESS IS A
         SEASONAL BUSINESS.  WE CAN'T BEAR THE EXPENSES WITHOUT
         THE CATERING.  THE PEOPLE CHARGE (SAY) THIS -- THERE
         MUST BE ONE-DISH DINNER.  THE GOVERNMENT MUST GIVE THE
         PERMISSION OF ONE-DISH DINNER.

                          // END ACT //

BUT PRIME MINISTER NAWAZ SHARIF HAS STOOD FIRM.  HE SAYS REQUESTS
FOR ONE-DISH MEALS ARE IMPROPER.  HE DEFENDS HIS POLICY SAYING IT
BENEFITS THE POOR.   (SIGNED)

NEB/DB/AC/CF

20-Mar-97 5:33 AM EST (1033 UTC)
NNNN

Source: Voice of America
..



------------------------------

Topic No. 11

Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 01:09:10 +0900 (KST)
From: xuanlong(9525051) <xuanlong@postech.ac.kr>
To: vnsa-l@csd.uwm.edu
Subject: Re: Vietnam and China
Message-ID: <199703201609.BAA12151@sws1.postech.ac.kr>


K. cha`o ca'c ba'c, 

Hmm, the topic is so hot that I can help but jumping into fire.
Our most well-known event-teller Tra.ng Tri`nh was said to 
have predicted that our country would have prospered by 
the late of this century. It is true that Vietnam is much 
better off and more peaceful than the past one
or two centuries( by that time standard - sounds stupid? ) but 
actually, if we look back the whole chain of history Vietnam is 
probably at the weakest point economicly, politicly,... in 
comparision with her neighbours. So in the confrontation with
the big guy China that ca'c ba'c have been enthusiatically 
discussing, there is not much Vietnam can do. Sadly, not much
except some loud protesting. 
	A stronger and richer China is, inevitably trying
to exercise its muscle to the outside world with its
thounsands of year old dream of Sinicization where
Vietnam has always been the very first prickle. You might 
wish to see an unstable China falling apart to reduce their
power, as in the case of the former SU. I think that chance 
is very small in a foreseeable future. My humble reasoning is 
that this country is already a big Asian world itself with  
with all factions ( capitalism, religions, communism
whatever names you may count) competing with one another and they
are still progressing, that is they have yet to reach the
the point of peacefully unconciliable conflict. This might
be true or not but an unstable China will seriously affect
the business of Vietnam, from the very vitality of the current
regime to our national economy. So like it or not, at least
Vietnamese leaders would not wish to see such scenario. 
It follows that there is hardly any concret solution for
Vietnamese strategy makers in dealing with the Chinese 
expansion ambition.
    Some fellow villagers also talked about wars with the China.
One can hardly believe if it does any good to us. On the other
hand China may be fond of kind of periodical military clash
with Vietnam which is too small to affect the world's concious 
but yet enough for us to be the big sufferer. Vietnam can never
afford another war, no matter how big or small it may be, if
she wants to catch up with the streamline of the regional economy.  
So lets loudly protest, and protest, at least lets not repeat
the mistakes we did in 1974  to Hoang sa. While awaiting Vietnam
to be able to find an appropriate position internationally
perhaps the Vnese leaders will have to find something affordable 
enough to offer the Chinese in exchange for a peacefull period.
Besides,  the US may be eyeing on the strategical
position of Vietnam, given her remarkable anti-China history,
and geography,... as a formidable power-balance to China in SEA.
So what about inviting them back to make use of the Cam Ranh bay?
This is not easy either but still possible.
     Afterall I still hope what Tra.ng Tri`nh predicted to be true. 
I'm already fed up with being proud of our records againsting 
foreign aggressors while looking at a prosperous South Korea
whose parents generation was just as miserable as ours,
yet whose current standard has become the dream of many Vietnamese.
And now they are beginning to look down on us on our own soil.
That is sad isn't it?. 

Happy China protesting,
	Nguyen X. Long

------------------------------

Topic No. 12

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 17:11:51 GMT
From: VU KHAC TRI <tvk@info.fundp.ac.be>
To: vnsa-l@csd.uwm.edu
Subject: Re: Vietnam and China
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970320171620.0fb731a4@info.fundp.ac.be>

Hi friend,

How are you ? What do you do there ? Were you in Vietnam ?
How about your gf ?


*-------------------------*-----------------------------------*
| VU KHAC Tri.            | Tel: +32-81-423411 (bureau)       |
| Medical Imaging Group   | Tel: +32-81-737832 (private)      |
| Institut d'informatique | Fax: +32-81-423408                |
| Rue de Grangagnage, 21  | http://www.info.fundp.ac.be/~tvk/ |
| 5000 - Namur, Belgium.  |                                   |
*-------------------------*-----------------------------------*


------------------------------

Topic No. 13

Date: 20 Mar 1997 12:07 EST
From: "Thai Nguyen" <tinguyen@nortel.ca>
To: vnsa-l@csd.uwm.edu
Subject: fw: Shrimp leaves environmental aftertaste
Message-ID: <199703201713.LAA05523@batch1.csd.uwm.edu>

By Elizabeth May


You've probably seen the advertisements for "all you can eat shrimp" dinners at "low, low prices." But the bill
rarely reflects the true costs of shrimp production, a price paid for by the environment and by rural
communities.

The raising of the tiny crustacean involves the destruction of coastal tropical forests, contamination of water supplies and loss
of farmland.

Shrimp is a fast growing export commodity, grown in intensive aquaculture ponds in countries from Thailand to Ecuador,
India to Nicaragua. The big boom in shrimp aquaculture began in the mid-1980's as wild fisheries went in crisis. Aquaculture
became a lucrative new source of foreign exchange earnings, and the invasion of shrimp to wealthy countries continues today.

Shrimp farms require salt water, making tropical coastlines a perfect haven. This is also the natural home of mangrove
forests, which are being cleared across the tropics at an alarming rate. Mangroves are vitally important, providing a range of
critical services from preventing salt intrusion into the land base, providing a "nursery" for local fisheries, and helping protect
coastal communities from the ravages of tropical storms. According to the United Nations, half of the world's mangrove forests
have disappeared, and over half of this loss is due to shrimp aquaculture.

Shrimp larvae are collected from the wild in fine nets, causing significant mortality in other species whose larvae is also
caught up in the nets. For every shrimp larvae caught, 15 other species are caught, killed and discarded. Ironically, the
quantities of natural shrimp in areas with shrimp farms have declined because mangroves are the shrimps' primary
nurseries. As a result, there is a growing shortage of the wild juvenile shrimp needed to stock the artificial ponds and an
increasing need to purchase larvae from hatcheries.

Once in the ponds, as in many monoculture situations, the shrimp are highly susceptible to disease and pest outbreak. Large
amounts of antibiotics and synthetic chemicals are used to prevent outbreak. These chemicals often leach into surrounding
fields and, combined with increased salinization of land caused by the clearing of mangrove forests, severely jeopardize local
farming. 

Shrimp aquaculture is now a major source of conflict at the community level. In Bangladesh, as in other tropical countries,
low-lying coastal farm lands are flooded with salt water to create ponds for shrimp production. In a country where land is the
major resource, shrimp production creates hostility between urban-based shrimp merchants and farmers who are losing
access to the land they have always used for farming and grazing.

Shrimp production is often cited by the World Bank as an important opportunity for poor countries to earn foreign exchange.
However, the benefits of the industry are dubious. Environmental costs, for example, are rarely considered in cost-benefit
calculations. An India Supreme Court inquiry calculated that the industry is a net economic drain resulting in job losses and
the destruction of once sustainable livelihoods in many coastal areas. 

Vandana Shiva, noted Indian environmentalist, has estimated that for every shrimp pond in India, 15 jobs are created running
the pond operation, 50 people are hired as a security force and tens of thousands of people are displaced. In Andhra Pradesh, a
province of India, 48,000 people were displaced within three years of a result of aquaculture development. Shrimp farming
mainly benefits wealthy outside investors, not the rural communities they are located in. Local farmers have had their land
expropriated in some cases, while in most debt or low prices for traditional crops force many farmers to sell to industry
investors.

The impact of shrimp production on local people and resources is similar to the impact of other monocultures such as bananas,
sugar, tea and coffee. It transfers resources out of local communities, concentrating those resources for the benefit of a few. It
also deprives local communities of their traditional access to land and water, while permanently altering and degrading the
environment. 

So where do all these shrimp go? To supermarkets and restaurants in Canada and the rest of the industrialized world. Next
time you are in a restaurant, ask where their shrimp comes from. Nine times out of ten, the answer will be a place such as
Thailand or Ecuador. Knowing the environmental and social costs of that "all you can eat shrimp meal-deal" should lesson
your appetite for shrimp. 

Many communities throughout the Majority world are mobilizing to stop the advance of shrimp aquaculture. One such story
comes from Thailand, where in just a few years production has jumped from 14,000 tons to over 100,000 tons, making the
Southeast Asian country the worlds leading exporter of shrimp. In the coastal village of Chao Mai, fish catches began
declining substantially in the mid-1980s, and subsequently so were the economic fortunes of the villagers. They soon discovered
that the nearby mangrove forest and sea-grass beds -- the feeding grounds for locally-caught fish -- were being destroyed due
to commercial shrimp farming. With support from the community development group 'Yad Fon' (meaning raindrop), the
community began collectively nurturing their mangrove forest, and created a sea-grass conservation zone which has grown
over the years. Now, catches are increasing and the situation is getting better. Chao Mai is proving that a small-scale,
selective-gear fishing industry can survive, maybe even flourish.



------------------------------

Topic No. 14

Date: 20 Mar 1997 13:33 EST
From: "Thai Nguyen" <tinguyen@nortel.ca>
To: vnsa-l@csd.uwm.edu
Subject: fw: GDP
Message-ID: <199703201838.MAA06635@batch1.csd.uwm.edu>

We often talk about the economy, the GDP, etc.  so I think this article might be
of interest to us:
------------
By Sean Kelly (The Sustainable Times)

The Gross Domestic Product is the value of all goods and services produced in a country. Changes in the GDP is how
economists define whether an economy is growing, or going into recession. But the GDP makes no distinction between good or
bad activity, and it ignores important parts of the economic engine.

     GDP treats the depletion of natural resources as current income, not long-
     term loss. When a natural resource (such as Atlantic Cod) is plundered to 
     near exhaustion, it does not register in national accounting books. 
     GDP makes no distinction between desirable and undesirable economic 
     activity -- for example pollution. GDP disregards pollution when it is 
     created while producing a product, and then actually counts is when we 
     spend money to clean it up! Alaska "enjoyed" a big increase in their GDP 
     after the environmentally disastrous Exxon Valdez oil spill. 
     GDP ignores volunteer work, and "non-monetary" activity such as women's 
     unpaid household and child-rearing work, without which the country would 
     grind to a halt. 
     GDP hides the growing gap between rich and poor. In any given year, the top
     percentage of our country's population may become much richer, while the 
     rest of us become a bit poorer. However, the GDP would show Canada as a 
     whole becoming richer.

For these reasons, Redefining Progress advocates scrapping the GDP in favour of
something it calls the Genuine Progress Indicator (GPI). In contrast to the GDP,
which merely measures overall economic production, the GPI adjusts for resource
depletion, housework, volunteer work, long-term environmental damage, 
unemployment and pollution. The GPI includes more than 20 aspects of people's 
economic lives that the GDP ignores.

The GPI begins with the same overall consumption totals used to determine the 
GDP. Then it adds estimates for the value of housework and the voluntary sector.
It subtracts estimates for things like pollution, accidents, depletion of non-
renewable resources, and increases in the rich-poor gap and the detrimental 
social costs this brings. The result is a much more truthful portrayal of our 
economic state-of-affairs. 

This new way to measure our well-being is critical if we are to make the right 
decisions about our long-term economic health. Instead of asking 'how much', we
should ask 'how well' will a policy -- such as free trade -- make us. The truth 
is that some things just aren't good for people and the planet. The GPI would 
help us determine if an economic activity is worth pursuing. It could also help 
us guide tax policy: for example, Redefining Progress suggests replacing taxes 
on work and enterprise with taxes on pollution and depletion of natural 
resources.

It's time to decide what an economy is for. Is it just to produce more stuff and
more profits, or is it to better our society and provide meaningful employment? 
It's time for economists to learn a new way to count.

------------------------------

End of VNSA-L Digest 288
************************