Re: Chi'nh ta? tie^'ng Vie^.t

[Dinh Van An <divan@presto.phys.sci.osaka-u.ac.jp>]

Hi ca'c ba'c,
 Chua^?n chi'nh ta? la` 1 va^'n dde^` mang ti'nh li.ch su+?, cho ne^n ta
ddu+`ng tra'ch ca'c cu. to^? nha` ta sao kho^ng dda+.t chua^?n tie^'ng
Vie^.t ga^`n vo+'i ca'ch no'i cu?a da^n SG hay Trung bo^./ To^i quan
nie^.m chua^?n ngo^n ngu+~ nhu+ 1 ca'i co.c ba'o  ddu+o+`ng, ca'i co.c
ddo' la`m ba+`ng cement Ha` no^.i hay SG hay Trung bo^. kho^ng quan
tro.ng, ma` ddie^?m quan tro.ng  ddo' la` co+ so+? chung cho vie^.c
communication cu?a da^n ta o+? kha+'p ca'c mie^`n. Co.c la` cement Ha`
no^.i cu~ng cha+?ng la`m ngu+o+`i HN cao quy' ho+n ngu+o+`i nhu+~ng
mie^`n kha'c va` ngu+o+.c la.i. (Vie^'t nhu+ the^' na`y kho^ng co'
nghi~a to^i cho tie^'ng Vie^.t chua^?n hie^.n nay la` tie^'ng (gio.ng)
Ha` no^.i, so vo+'i chua^?n, gio.ng Ha` no^.i va^~n co' kho^'i ddie^`u
ca^`n ba`n )
 Chi'nh ta? tuy la` ky' a^m, nhu+ng ne^'u tu`y tie^.n thi` da^n Trung
Nam ba+'c se~ co' bao nhie^u he^. ky' a^m. Vi` va^.y vie^.c co' 1
chua^?n chi'nh ta? la` ta^'t ye^'u. To^i tin ra+`ng da^n Anh hay Me~o
du` o+? ca'c vung kha'c nhau (cha+'c cha+'n co' su+. pha't a^m kha'c
nhau) nhu+ng dde^`u cu`ng chung 1 ca'ch vie^'t chi'nh ta?.
 Trong tie^'ng Vie^.t co' mo^.t so^' tu+` pha't a^m kha'c da^'u ma`
va^~n ddu+o+.c hie^?u nhu+ nhau(du` nghi~a go^'c kha'c nhau) nhu+ ba'c
Ho`a dda~ la^'y vi' du. DDa so^' hay ha^`u he^'t nhu+~ng tu+` na`y la`
tu+` Ha'n Vie^.t, do vie^.c hie^?u chu+a tha^'u dda'o ve^` ca'c tu+` co'
go^'c tu+` Ha'n ngu+~ ne^n da^n ta du`ng nha^`m la^u tha`nh quen hoa+.c
do su+. lie^n tu+o+?ng dde^'n nhu+~ng tra.ng tha'i, ddo^.ng ta'c ma`
tu+` na`y mo^ ta? co' lie^n quan ma^.t thie^'t vo+'i nhau, la^u da^`n
da^~n dde^'n su+. ddo^`ng ho'a ngu+~ nghi~a. DDo' kho^ng pha?i ddo+n
thua^`n do ca'ch pha't a^m nhu+ ba'c Ho`a nghi~.
 Va^'n dde^` tie^'p la` ba'c Ho`a hie^?u nha^`m ca'c vi' du. ve^`
ngu+o+`i nu+o+'c ngoa`i gio?i tie^'ng Vie^.t ma` ba'c ddu+a dde^'n
vie^.c mo+`i ngu+o;`i nu+o+'c ngoa`i da.y tie^'ng Vie^.t cho ngu+o+`i
Vie^.t. Theo to^i nghi~, ca'c vi' du. ma` chu'ng ta dda~ ke^? trong ca'c
msg dda~ posted chi? no'i le^n 1 ddie^`u la` co' 1 bo^. pha^.n ngu+o+`i
Vie^.t ca`ng nga`y ca`ng ke'm tie^'ng Vie^.t, chu+' ngu+o+`i nu+o+'c
ngoa`i du` gio?i dde^'n dda^u cu~ng kho^ng the^? gio?i tie^'ng Vie^.t
ho+n ngu+o+`i Vie^.t (theo nghi~a chung), vi` ngo^n ngu+~ kho^ng ta'ch
ro+`i va+n ho'a, ta^.p qua'n, lo^'i so^'ng va` ca'ch suy nghi~.
  
Hoa Nguyen wrote:
> 
> Cha`o ba'c Hoa`ng Linh va` ca'c ba'c,
> Va^'n dde^` na`y ddu'ng la` mo^'i quan ta^m lo+'n cu?a nhie^`u ngu+o+`i, va`
> co' cha('c la` dda~ ddu+o+.c gia?i quye^'t o^?n tho?a  chu+a, hay va^~n
> tru+o+'c sao thi` sau va^.y. To^i xin go'p y' vo+'i "ca'c" ba'c ve^` nhu+~ng
> ddie^?m  dda~ ne^u trong nhie^`u mesg (ne^'u to^i co`n nho+' ddu+o+.c
> he^'t).
> Tru+o+'c he^'t to^i nghi~ phe'p chi'nh ta? (vie^'t cho ddu'ng chu+~) chi?
> la` "convention" nhu+ chu+~ ba'c Huy D du`ng . Ddie^`u na`y du+o+`ng nhu+
> tha^'y ro~ nha^'t trong tie^'ng Anh, no'i mo^.t dda(`ng vie^'t mo^.t ne?o do
> ca'ch pha't a^m thay ddo^?i nhie^`u theo tho+`i gian hay do pha't a^m sai
> khi vay mu+o+.n ngo^n ngu+~ kha'c, va` tha^'y ca? trong tie^'ng Ta`u vie^'t
> ra^'t "tu`y tie^.n" ma` va^~n pha?i theo ddu'ng vi` co' nhie^`u gio.ng ddo.c
> ddi.a phu+o+ng kha'c nhau qua'. Nhu+ng ca'i convention ddo' dda~ ca(n cu+'
> va`o dda^u ma` co'. Rie^ng trong "chu+~ quo^'c ngu+~" to^i tha^'y la` do:
> 1/ Ca'ch pha't a^m ( ca(n cu+' theo da^'u gio.ng mie^`n Ba('c)
> 2/ Quen du`ng (nhie^`u tie^'ng kho^ng bie^'t ta.i sao la.i vie^'t nhu+
> va^.y)
> 3/ Ddo^i khi co' pha^n va^n thi` du+.a va`o tu+` nguye^n (thu+o`ng la` go^'c
> tie^'ng Ha'n Vie^.t).
> Co' the^? co`n nhie^`u nu+~a, nhu+ng cu+' ta.m va^.y ddi. Va` kho+?i dda^`u
> ca^u chuye^.n to^i dda~ ne^u ra va^'n dde^` "ho?i nga~" tu+` chuye^.n ke^?
> mo+'i nghe nhu+ ky` cu.c, vo^ ly' : ngu+o+`i ngoa.i quo^'c co' the^? gio?i
> tie^'ng Vie^.t ho+n ngu+o+`i Vie^.t, tha^.m chi' co`n ne^n mo+`i da.y
> tie^'ng Vie^.t cho ngu+o+`i Vie^.t trong nu+o+'c.
> Tha^.t ra "chuye^.n ky` cu.c" ddo' la` chuye^.n co' tha^.t. Mo^.t chu+~
> Vie^.t ma` nay ta cho pha?i vie^'t the^' na`y mo+'i ddu'ng, the^' kia la`
> sai la` vi` ta du+.a va`o chu+~ "quo^'c ngu+~" dda~ du+o+.c ca'c co^' dda.o
> ngoa.i quo^'c dda(.t ra va` da.y cho ta dda^'y tho^i. Ne^'u bie^'t va^.y
> thi` nie^`m tu+. ha`o cu?a ai vie^'t ddu'ng chi'nh ta? co' the^? bi. gia?m
> ddi va`i pha^`n :-).
> Ca'c vi. thu+`a sai cu?a toa` Vatican dda~ "ghi a^m" tie^'ng Vie^.t vo+'i
> da^'u gio.ng cu?a da^n mie^`n na`o ddo', va` chi? do ti`nh co+` ddo' la`
> mie^`n Ba('c tho^i, cho ne^n ngu+o+`i mie^`n Ba('c cu~ng ddu+`ng ne^n qua'
> ha~nh die^.n la` vie^'t ra^'t ddu'ng "chu+~ quo^'c ngu+~" :-). To^i ddoa'n
> the^m la` tuy tie^'ng Vie^.t ddu+o+.c no'i nhu+ the^' ddo' o+? mie^`n Ba('c
> nhu+ng kho^ng pha?i thuo^.c vu`ng xu+' dda.o ven bie^?n nhu+ Tha'i Bi`nh ,
> Ha?i Du+o+ng vi` kho^ng tha^'y sai ca'c phu. a^m "N" vo+'i "L", va` co'
> the^? la` thuo^.c khoa?ng vu`ng Thanh Ho'a vi` tha^'y ddu+o+.c pha^n bie^.t
> ra`nh re~ GI vo+'i D , va`  R nu+~a, S vo+'i X... (ngoa`i chuye^.n nho? nhu+
> da^'u gio.ng ho?i vo+'i nga~) (O+? cho^~ na`y to^i "gia? tu+o+?ng" cho vui
> tho^i, vi` to^i kho^ng pha^n bie^.t ddu+o+.c gio.ng Ba('c o+? ca'c vu`ng
> kha'c nhau). Khi ngu+o+`i Vie^.t  ddi da^`n ve^` phi'a Nam tu+` khi co' ai
> ddo' "mang gu+o+m ddi mo+? nu+o+'c", thi` tie^'ng Vie^.t na(`m trong ha`nh
> ly' ddu+o+.c mang theo dda~ pha tro^.n tu+. nhie^n vo+'i ngo^n ngu+~ cu?a
> ca'c da^n to^.c kha'c (Cha`m, Mie^n, Ta`u...) kho^ng co' ca'c a^m va` da^'u
> gio.ng nhu+ o+? mie^`n Ba('c. Cu~ng co' the^? do nhie^`u nguye^n nha^n kha'c
> (to^i la.i kho^ng tin do o+? nu+o+'c uo^'ng hay, phong tho^?, tho+`i tie^'t)
> ca'ch pha't a^m tie^'ng Vie^.t thay ddo^?i da^`n, da^'u gio.ng ho?i nga~
> ma^'t ddi, kho^ng pha^n bie^.t ddu+o+.c phu. a^m dda^`u va` cuo^'i, nhu+ ta
> dda~ bie^'t. Thay ddo^?i ca? thanh a^m giu+~a nu+~a, nhu+ sinh va` sanh,
> Tra`ng va` Tru+o+`ng, phu'c va` phu+o+'c.
> To^i kho^ng no'i la` "ba^'t co^ng" nhu+ ba'c Huy D, nhu+ng ro~ la` ma^'y cha
> co^' sa'ng ta.o ra chu+~ Vie^.t ba^y gio+` kho^ng co^ng ba(`ng vo+'i nhie^`u
> vu`ng trong nu+o+'c, nhu+ co' ngu+o`i mie^`n Ba('c dda~ kho^ng co^ng ba(`ng
> vo+'i hai nha^n va^.t li.ch su+? Dda`ng Trong khi "ddo^?i te^n" cu?a ho.:
> Vo~ Ta'nh tha`nh Vu~ Ti'nh, Ngo^ Tu`ng Cha^u tha`nh Ngo^ To`ng Chu. Nhie^`u
> tie^'ng Vie^.t o+? nhu+~ng vu`ng kha'c bi. ma^'t ddi (kha' oan uo^?ng).
> Ne^'u nhu+ "da^n ta" (Trung va` Nam) dde^`u no'i "ma^`ng ra(ng", "ma^`ng
> a(n" thi` co' ne^n da.y la`pha?i vie^'t  "ma^`n chi" mo+'i la` ddu'ng, khi
> chu+a ca('t nghi~a ddu+o+.c ta.i sao la.i pha?i vie^'t va^.y ? The^m nu+~a
> ne^'u vie^'t "li.nh" cho+' kho^ng la` "le^.nh", "cha'nh" ma` kho^ng pha?i
> la` "chi'nh"..., thi` co' go.i la` sai chi'nh ta? kho^ng.
> Tro+? la.i ca^u chuye^.n da^'u gio.ng ho?i nga~ thi` to^i tha^'y su+. thay
> ddo^?i da^'u gio.ng va^~n co' xa?y ra trong tru+o+`ng ho+.p kha'c, va`
> ddu+o+.c "vui ve? hay tha?n nhie^n" cha^'p nha^.n, cho+' kho^ng coi la`
> vie^'t sai chi'nh ta? . Thi' du :
> 1/ an "ti~nh" vo+'i thanh "ti.nh"  hay an "ti.nh" vo+'i thanh "ti~nh". du`ng
> da^'u nga~ hay na(.ng gi` cu~ng co' sao dda^u.
> 2/ na^'m "mo^`" vo+'i ngo^i "mo^." thi` da^'u na`o (huye^`n hay na(ng)
> mo+'i la` ddu'ng o+? dda^y ?
> To'm la.i, khi vie^'t "cu~ng" hay "dda~" vo+'i da^'u nga~ to^i cho chi? la`
> chuye^.n ti`nh co+` (cu?a lic.h su+? truye^`n dda.o TCG  tho^i :-)).
> N. Ho`a
> (chu? tru+o+ng la`m chu+~ vie^'t va` cuo^.c ddo+`i gia?n di. ddi :-) ).
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hoang Linh <linhpriv@salamon.baralib.hu>
> 
> >To^i cho la ca'i te^. NO'I
> la^~n lo^.n ho?i (?), nga~ (~) co' the^? to^`n ta.i tu+` xu+a (o+? mie^`n
> Trung
> va` Nam cha(?ng ha.n), nhu+ng na.n VIE^'T sai tu+' tung (do vo^ y', do tho'i
> quen hoa(.c co' the^? do cha(?ng bie^'t thu+.c su+. la ho?i hay nga~
> nu+~a... :-)) co' le~ mo+'i "pha't trie^?n trong tho+`i gian ga^`n dda^y
> tho^i
> (nha^'t la` o+? ngoa`i na`y).
> 
> Di~ nhie^n la` "nhie^`u  khi vie^'t tie^'ng Vie^.t kho^ng co' da^'u gi`
> he^'t...
> va^~n ddo.c hie^?u ddu+o+.c", nhu+ng cu~ng co' khi vie^'t sai ho?, nga~
> la`m sai ca? ca^u va(n. Va? la.i, ne^'u the^' thi` nghi~ ra 2 da^'u ho?i,
> nga~
> pha^n bie^.t la`m gi`? :-))
> 
> HLinh (chu? tru+o+ng vie^'t ddu'ng ho?i, nga~)

-- 
DVAn
http://ann.phys.wani.osaka-u.ac.jp/~an/